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The now-enacted will of (some of) the people


blandy

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33 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yeah, I accidentally watched it last week for the first time in an age and it just felt like the same episode I'd last watched back in the Spring or whenever. There was some ukip tool on there saying Britain First weren't all that bad. So I gave it a swerve tonight as I can't be going down Richer sounds every Friday for a new tv.

Lots of bitter shouty people that can't see another persons point of view, nobody listening, just waiting for their chance to shout and score a shallow point that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. They should all chill and try and be a bit more like me.

It was particularly horrific tonight. Oakeshott was in her element.

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9 hours ago, darrenm said:

It was particularly horrific tonight. Oakeshott was in her element.

Which one's Oakeshott?

Is she the one slightly to the right of Banks in this photo?

DRCxN48WsAY-Ka_.jpg

It's Question Time, they have a remit to always over represent the 4% of people that vote ukip.

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13 hours ago, snowychap said:

It only took a couple of sentences on Question Time to reinforce my opinion that Isabel Oakeshott is an obnoxious piece of shit.

Oakeshott is a vile creature but her views are sadly shared by a fair proportion of our society and you need them aired so those with opposing views can put forward the counter argument and show her, and those like her,for what they are.

I'd love to debate with her and have the opportunity to rip her views to pieces.

Edited by markavfc40
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55 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Many gammon faces in the audience?

The mother of all gammon faces going into a 5 minute rant that included pretty much every ignorant view going.

54 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Oakeshott is a vile creature but her views are sadly shared by a fair proportion of our society and you need them aired so those with opposing views can put forward the counter argument and show her, and those like her,for what they are.

I'd love to debate with her and have the opportunity rip her views to pieces.

Unfortunately she's really good at what she does. More coherent than Hartley-Brewer and Hopkins.

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Which one's Oakeshott?

Is she the one slightly to the right of Banks in this photo?

DRCxN48WsAY-Ka_.jpg

It's Question Time, they have a remit to always over represent the 4% of people that vote ukip.

That's her. Keeping relevant company I see.

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1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Many gammon faces in the audience?

DRCu5CuW0AMIe_l.jpg:large

Said unrestricted migration ruined Barnsley.

That's 'way less than average national % of immigrant population' Barnsley.

The Tories ruined Barnsley and successfuly managed to scapegoat immigrants.

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2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Oakeshott is a vile creature but her views are sadly shared by a fair proportion of our society and you need them aired so those with opposing views can put forward the counter argument and show her, and those like her,for what they are.

I'd love to debate with her and have the opportunity to rip her views to pieces.

But Oakeshott's comments weren't related to what was actually voted upon the other night (they may have been related to the motives of the members of the opposition who voted for the amendment but that's a very different thing).

She came with a prejudiced, populist point (a similar one to that which Philip Davies indignantly raised shortly before the end of the debate in parliament having not bothered to have actually been present for any of it) and you're not going to change the minds of those who wanted to hear the views she put forward and she most certainly knew that.

It is, in common with much surrounding the issues of leaving or staying in the EU, not something where those holding already-decided views (or those making statements intended to raise the ire of those holding those views) can properly be reasoned with.

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46 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Here he is

 

What an utter spoon ranty QT man is.

Edit: It was nice of him, though, to confirm that immigration was the issue foremost in his mind and the mind of Barnsley overall when casting their votes to leave.

Edited by snowychap
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People often point out the apparent paradox that people who don't like non-white immigration (i.e. racists) voted for Brexit, despite the fact that the non-white immigrants are not from the EU. 

I suspect that their train of thought ran: 

'Soft' EU human rights laws prevent us from acting unilaterally, so if we leave, we can do whatever we want, just like in the good old days, when you could watch the Black and White Minstrel Show, and put up 'no coloureds' signs in shop windows and on job adverts. It'll be just like the 1950s again, when Britain was Great. 

It's a misguided idea, but it does have a warped logic to it. 

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1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

Yet more proof that Question Time is part of the problem.

Thing is, apart from laughing at thicky, there's not much left to it. In times gone by a monosyllabic fool who keeps saying 'the single market' and 'Keir Starmer' a lot without having much of a salient point would be glossed over and we'd move on to someone who had something to add of some, if not much, importance. Now it seems the BBC themselves make click-bait Twitter posts out of them and help fuel the premise that this is what Brexit voters look like.

There's a reason why, at referendum time, the most prevalent question asked to me was one of "where do I get decent information from?". There's a reason why, long after the event, people are still het up about what someone wrote on the side of a bus for example. I think, in 2017, we have evolved past the need for vague sentences on busses being used as an effective tool for the communication of complex political topics myself. If the beeb spent the time they spend vetting the audience of each Question Time episode (in the name of balance obviously :D ) on doing some actual investigative journalism maybe they themselves could have produced some sort of documentary of facts around the EU and the UK's role within it. Unfortunately it seems a half hour Panorama where they talk to a farmer a bit is all we get.

There's a reason why the BBC write articles like the recent one entitled "What you need to know about Venezuela" which, strangely, didn't mention the IMF's role in bringing about the American funded attempted coup in the 90's and subsequent 20 years of international sanctions designed to cripple their oil rich economy.

Oh no hang on, sorry for ranting, here's a bit from a piece from 4 days ago entitled "Brexit: All you need to know about the UK leaving the EU". I guess I'll be eating my own words then and the BBC will prove me wrong in still being a respected journalistic institution.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887

Feel free to click if you feel the need to be enlightened on such intrinsic problems with the UK leaving the EU as "will we be barred from the Eurovision song contest?", "Will the EU still use English?", "will cars need new number plates?" and obviously one for the Daily Heil readers "Has Brexit made house prices fall?". Jesus wept.

 

Or, to put it another way, it should never have been put to a referendum - which is what I said way back at the start of the original thread, when the idea was first mooted. 

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43 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Or, to put it another way, it should never have been put to a referendum - which is what I said way back at the start of the original thread, when the idea was first mooted. 

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” - George Carlin

I get that way of thinking mooney, I just don't subscribe to it personally. If we are talking the 'people can't be trusted' argument that is, it's just too elitist for me. Ultimately it highlights to me that even in this last two years with a captive and willing audience no one has taken the opportunity to attempt to raise that average intelligence.

In any statistical modelling for example, you worry about the raw data, not the outcome. The opposite was in play in this referendum. Mr Barnsley there is a great example of someone attempting to string a sentence together out of key words related to the topic. What is unsurprising is what they are when you consider the words rammed down his throat by places like the BBC. People often regurgitate things they hear on the news as fact and look for some sort of social acceptance or reassurance from their peers. Hell, I do it on VT all the time, look at me now ffs!! But he is merely a product of our system, Mr Barnsley there. The way we do things produces people who think like him. That is a fact and one which people don't seem very comfortable accepting in their own little bubbles. No amount of hard or soft Brexit is going to change that.

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandela

Also though,

"To be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others." - Nelson Mandela

 

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10 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

Ultimately it highlights to me that even in this last two years with a captive and willing audience no one has taken the opportunity to attempt to raise that average intelligence.

Thing is Marv, "euthanising thickies" is a bit Hitlery...a bit illegal ...and the sort of thing only an unscrupulous bounder of the most dubious kidney would actually even contemplate. "Cuts that's the only way you could increase the average intelligence :P

But you're right about education and information being key. The difficulty, I guess is twofold. Firstly in a free society, how do you stop the likes of the Daily Heil and other outlets spouting rubbish about all kinds to scare the bejesus out of people? and secondly, how do you explain in easily digestible terms why the EU (or any other thing) is on balance "good" while at the same time there's this storm of nonsense pouring out of the media.

And also, to be fair, the EU doesn't exactly help itself - it's massively flawed in many aspects, which makes arguing the massive benefits in other areas a harder task.

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I'm trying to engage leavers on twitter. Trying to hear their views and discuss without causing any defensiveness. The views of some people are shocking. And it seems to be a lot of them.

I fully blame the Daily Mail, the Express and The Sun for all of this.

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