Chindie Posted February 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: presumably that same point extends to Donald Trump ? Yes. You'd have to dig through the lies first of course, but there might be something worth listening to. I doubt there would be, but in theory yes. Have I suggested otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Chindie said: Yes. You'd have to dig through the lies first of course, but there might be something worth listening to. I doubt there would be, but in theory yes. Have I suggested otherwise? only in about 600000 posts in the U.S Politics thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: only in about 600000 posts in the U.S Politics thread I don't think I've actually done that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 The headline in the Times today... Sure to get some Leaver backs up. 'Davis confirms UK will stay open to EU migrants' because we don't have enough people to do shitty jobs (apparently we will take years to train people to do these crap jobs, which is a fantastic euphemism). If they read the article it'll become clear that it is actually David Davis showing he's not completely delusional, but I'll enjoy the idiots going mad over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Chindie said: The headline in the Times today... Sure to get some Leaver backs up. 'Davis confirms UK will stay open to EU migrants' because we don't have enough people to do shitty jobs (apparently we will take years to train people to do these crap jobs, which is a fantastic euphemism). If they read the article it'll become clear that it is actually David Davis showing he's not completely delusional, but I'll enjoy the idiots going mad over it. I'm utterly shocked that all this cheap, efficient, hardworking migrant labour is actually beneficial to the economy and country. Utterly shocked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) On 20/02/2017 at 08:59, Wainy316 said: I find a lot of my parents generation argument is they remember what it is like before joining the EU and they think they remember that everything was great. What they don't realise is, things were better because they were living pre Thatcherism. amended that for you Edited February 22, 2017 by andyh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Jon said: I'm utterly shocked that all this cheap, efficient, hardworking migrant labour is actually beneficial to the economy and country. Utterly shocked. But would you be equally sanguine about a claim that Thatcher's policies produced a cheap, efficient, hardworking labour force, which benefited the economy and the country? Now that would be shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 22, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2017 55 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Thatcher's policies produced a cheap, efficient, hardworking labour force, which benefited the economy and the country? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 Just read an article about Geert Wilders, he seems even worse than Farage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straggler Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 So Brexit means taking control over immigration, and having taken control of immigration we shall still allow the brightest and best from abroad in because we need the skills and we will allow the low paid because we still need them to do all the crappy jobs we won't do. We will however slam the door shut when it is in the national interest to do so, which I'm assuming means when it is proven that immigration is a net loss to the country, (which it isn't or to my knowledge has never been). It does make me wonder a little bit why immigration is the number one red line when even one of the main advocates of "taking back control" has very successfully articulated that immigration is a positive thing for the UK and that having taken back control the first thing he would do is to change nothing. So: no extra money for the NHS, no access to the single market and no reduction in migration. What's the point of Brexit? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Straggler said: So Brexit means taking control over immigration, and having taken control of immigration we shall still allow the brightest and best from abroad in because we need the skills and we will allow the low paid because we still need them to do all the crappy jobs we won't do. We will however slam the door shut when it is in the national interest to do so, which I'm assuming means when it is proven that immigration is a net loss to the country, (which it isn't or to my knowledge has never been). It does make me wonder a little bit why immigration is the number one red line when even one of the main advocates of "taking back control" has very successfully articulated that immigration is a positive thing for the UK and that having taken back control the first thing he would do is to change nothing. So: no extra money for the NHS, no access to the single market and no reduction in migration. What's the point of Brexit? We'll be able to change the number plates and get blue passports back. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 35 minutes ago, Straggler said: So Brexit means taking control over immigration, and having taken control of immigration we shall still allow the brightest and best from abroad in because we need the skills and we will allow the low paid because we still need them to do all the crappy jobs we won't do. We will however slam the door shut when it is in the national interest to do so, which I'm assuming means when it is proven that immigration is a net loss to the country, (which it isn't or to my knowledge has never been). It does make me wonder a little bit why immigration is the number one red line when even one of the main advocates of "taking back control" has very successfully articulated that immigration is a positive thing for the UK and that having taken back control the first thing he would do is to change nothing. So: no extra money for the NHS, no access to the single market and no reduction in migration. What's the point of Brexit? Explore exciting new trade deals with Djibouti and Nicaragua? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 22, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Straggler said: What's the point of Brexit? Keep up dude. The point of Brexit was to stop the tories (and now more recently, Labour) losing some votes to the UKIPs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 From RTE, Quote Bomb explodes outside PSNI officer's home as Army team approaches A bomb believed to have fallen from a police officer's car in Northern Ireland exploded as Army disposal experts were approaching it this afternoon. Nobody was injured when the device detonated in the driveway of the officer's home at Ardanlee in the Culmore area of Derry. It is understood the bomb was lying on the driveway, having fallen off the policeman's vehicle as he drove away from home this morning. There's no chance this will spread to England. Everything is going to be all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 30 minutes ago, Enda said: From RTE, There's no chance this will spread to England. Everything is going to be all right. I'm not sure why a republican bomb in Londonderry is linked to Brexit ... what am I missing here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Enda Posted February 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2017 31 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I'm not sure why a republican bomb in Londonderry is linked to Brexit ... what am I missing here ? A good question! The short answer is that, historically, the Border is a boon to people who like to kill other humans. Leaving the Customs Unions will require a border. The sentiment is capture pretty well in this Guardian article, calling border police "sitting ducks". But I'm really bad at giving short answers so will waffle on for another couple of paragraphs. Many elements of the Good Friday Agreement are reliant on pan-European agencies, in particular the EU's funding of "peace initiatives", but also the explicit recognition of the European Convention of Human Rights as a baseline for civil rights up there, so a departure from these agencies could cause further trouble. A couple of weeks ago, the UK Parliament rejected a vote that would require the Brexit terms be consistent with previous commitments under the GFA. Pull out the hundreds of millions of pounds the EU is pouring into Derry to keep people happy, "disrespect the wishes of the NI electorate" by pursuing Brexit, unilaterally back out of basic civil right mechanisms agreed to under the GFA, reinforce the partition mentality by having a hard border... it doesn't take much to undo the great progress our two countries have worked so hard on to improve relations. I think the UK is blindly walking into a very dangerous situation. As I don't like seeing ordinary English people being killed or injured by IRA bombs in pubs, I think the way Brexit is proceeding is really very regrettable. And, of course, I really hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I am. I think there will be violence. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 DUP spent £282,000 on Brexit ad that did not run in Northern Ireland Quote The Democratic Unionist party spent £282,000 on a pro-Brexit advert in a newspaper that is not published in Northern Ireland, according to documents released by the Electoral Commission. The advertising cover wrap appeared in the Metro elsewhere in the UK as part of a total DUP spend on the EU referendum campaign of £425,000, more than seven times the party’s declared expenditure of £58,183 on the 2015 general election. Under a loophole in funding rules dating to the Troubles, which allows Northern Irish political parties to accept anonymous contributions, the identity of the donors to the DUP campaign had not been made public. But after growing pressure to name the source of the money, the DUP MP Sir Jeffrey Donaldson revealed on Friday that the pro-union Constitutional Research Council (CRC) had donated. It came hours before the commission published the expenditure of organisations and individuals that had spent more than £250,000 during the campaign. Meanwhile, the body announced that it has opened investigations into the spending of both official campaigns in the referendum and is looking into the returns of more than half a dozen other organisations. The size of the DUP spend has led to renewed concerns about the loophole. Critics have also questioned how the party raised such a large campaign fund. One warned that Northern Ireland was being used by major political donors as an “offshore secrecy haven”. Donaldson described the CRC, chaired by the former vice-chairman of the Scottish Conservative party Richard Cook, as a “group of businessmen that promotes pro-union politics”. “I believe it is a reputable organisation and we are very pleased to have received that donation for our national campaign,” he told the Guardian. In keeping with the rest of the UK, Northern Irish parties have to report donations of more than £7,500 to the commission. But while political parties in Northern Ireland are required to report their donations, the commission cannot publish this information other than for the purposes of civil or criminal proceedings. The exemption was designed to protect donors from possible threats or intimidation. Friends of the Earth in Northern Ireland started a campaign for party donor transparency five years ago. In response to the revelations, it said: “We thought dark money was trickling through our political system, but now we know it is flowing like a torrent.” James Orr, the environmental group’s director in Northern Ireland, said: “There are implications for the entire UK when even a small devolved country tolerates secret donations to political parties. This funding could be the tip of the iceberg. “We have been warning everyone in the UK that the unjustifiable special status of Northern Ireland would eventually lead to a situation where major political spending could use Northern Ireland as an offshore secrecy haven.” The Alliance party, which pushed through legislation in the House of Commons three years ago that should eventually reveal all donors of more than £7,500 to Northern Irish parties, challenged the DUP to voluntarily name its “mystery” benefactors during the EU referendum campaign last year. Investigations have begun into the official lead campaigns on both sides, Britain Stronger in Europe and Vote Leave, which each registered total expenditures of more than £6.7m, the commission said. The elections watchdog added that £27m was spent overall, £16m by remain groups and £11m by leave organisations and individuals. The campaigns had seemingly not provided all the invoices and receipts required to support their returns, with some other details also missing, the commission said. The Liberal Democrats, who registered a spend of £2.2m for remain, are also being investigated over similar issues. The commission, which has legal powers under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, said it was not yet known whether any offences had been committed. It is also looking into the spending of six other campaigns, including Labour and Ukip, which submitted returns with discrepancies over how they reported some expenditures, the commission said. Remain: £16,152,899 The In Campaign Ltd (Britain Stronger in Europe) - £6,767,584 Labour party – £4,845,733 Liberal Democrats – £2,225,058 Conservatives In Ltd – £658,431 Virgin Management Ltd – £488,101 Unison - £461,084 Best For Our Future Ltd - £409,438 European Movement of the UK Ltd - £297,470 Leave: £11,534,426 Vote Leave Ltd – £6,789,892 Ukip – £1,354,393 Leave.EU Group Ltd – £693,022 Brexit Express – £630,236 Labour Leave Ltd – £494,897 DUP – £425,622 Peter Harris – £421,433 Democracy Movement – £421,308 WAGTV Ltd – £303,623 Total: £27,687,325 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 It begins. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/26/theresa-may-poised-announce-end-free-movement-new-eu-migrants/ Quote Theresa May is next month poised to announce the end of free movement for new EU migrants on the same day that she formally triggers Brexit negotiations. The Prime Minister is expected to say that EU citizens who travel to Britain after she triggers Article 50 will no longer have the automatic right to stay in the UK permanently. They will instead be subject to migration curbs after Britain leaves the European Union, which could include a new visa regime and restricted access to benefits. Mrs May is expected to say that EU migrants who arrived in the UK before the "cut-off date" will have their rights protected as long British citizens living elsewhere in Europe are granted the same assurance. Iain Duncan Smith, a leading Eurosceptic conservative MP, said that that announcement will show that Mrs May is taking control of Britain's borders while giving clarity to the 3.6million EU migrants already living in the UK. He said: "Theresa understands that if you want to take control you have to command the high ground. She will be giving clarity by setting a clear deadline while the European Union looks increasingly muddled and mean-spirited". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted February 27, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2017 Is that even legal? Surely she can't do that until the negotiations have finished and we leave the EU? Do we leave the single market on the same day that she announces that then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 The enforcement won't happen until the exit is complete, so I can't see why it'd be illegal. Nothing changes while we remain in the EU. After article 50 is issued, freedom of movement will remain, however when we actually leave, the new immigration policies will be retrospective, going back to the date article 50 was invoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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