peterms Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, darrenm said: Yep. And it looks like the EU won't give any concessions to the government. Yes, some trivial concessions, plus the PR angle of letting her strut around like she's achieved something, because they are acutely aware of how extremely weak and unstable she is, as is her entire government. It's pretty offensive that the tories are trying to present this utter capitulation as some kind of masterclass in negotiation, instead of a complete collapse in the face of onrushing reality. I suppose truth and integrity were never their strong suits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, darrenm said: Yep. And it looks like the EU won't give any concessions to the government. Just now, peterms said: Yes, some trivial concessions, plus the PR angle of letting her strut around like she's achieved something, because they are acutely aware of how extremely weak and unstable she is, as is her entire government. It's pretty offensive that the tories are trying to present this utter capitulation as some kind of masterclass in negotiation, instead of a complete collapse in the face of onrushing reality. I suppose truth and integrity were never their strong suits. Hang on you guys, something doesn't add up here. Ian Duncan Smith is doing the rounds of media studios saying we won as europe blinked first as they finally realised they needed the deal more than we do. Sorry guys, but one of you three is talking bollocks. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Hang on you guys, something doesn't add up here. Ian Duncan Smith is doing the rounds of media studios saying we won as europe blinked first as they finally realised they needed the deal more than we do. Sorry guys, but one of you three is talking bollocks. It is insulting peoples intelligence isn't it. The front page of the Daily Mail and The Express were spouting similar bollocks that we'd got one over on the EU. I say it is insulting peoples intelligence but clearly some people lap this crap up and believe it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 58 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: It is insulting peoples intelligence isn't it. The front page of the Daily Mail and The Express were spouting similar bollocks that we'd got one over on the EU. I say it is insulting peoples intelligence but clearly some people lap this crap up and believe it. I doubt all this posturing is going to go down too well with Barnier, Tusk and Junckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, darrenm said: I doubt all this posturing is going to go down too well with Barnier, Tusk and Junckers. I would imagine they expected it to happen and really couldn't care less 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, darrenm said: I doubt all this posturing is going to go down too well with Barnier, Tusk and Junckers. Well that was the weird thing listening to Smith earlier today. It was a weird juvenile thing to do. To claim we'd won, that the other team had bottled it. I mean, clearly that isn't what happened, if the EU 'blinked' wtf was earlier in the week about when we thought we had a deal and had to cancel because prime minister Foster said no, get back here and re write it. But apart from the denial of what's on record, it's then potentially going to upset the other side in the next phase. Luckily, I'd imagine the extensive and excruciatingly detailed 850 page report the EU hold on Ian Duncan Smith simply says 'vacuous dick'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Sorry guys, but one of you three is talking bollocks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, darrenm said: I doubt all this posturing is going to go down too well with Barnier, Tusk and Junckers. They are indulging her, as you would indulge a child. They let her pretend to "win concessions" to placate her domestic audience, when the whole world knows the reality is the exact opposite. It's a small price to pay, for them. You have only to read the EU risk assessments to see how clearly they see her as a weak and unstable figure, in need of propping up until they get the business done. It's worth playing a line the tory press will like, to move on. But the destination is an unwelcome one, for us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, peterms said: They are indulging her, as you would indulge a child. They let her pretend to "win concessions" to placate her domestic audience, when the whole world knows the reality is the exact opposite. I think you're spot on but just how gullible/thick has this domestic audience got to be to fall for it? I am actually not so sure it is gullible/thick and more that many of the Brexiteers have realised they have been had but to save face are rejoicing at made up concessions hoping the rest of us will fall for their act. Edited December 9, 2017 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 If brexit types are happy while the UK stays in the EU in all but name then I think the UK will have gotten out of this lightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted December 9, 2017 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, LondonLax said: If brexit types are happy while the UK stays in the EU in all but name then I think the UK will have gotten out of this lightly. It’ll take them a decade to realise what’s happened 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I think people are possibly underestimating how sick and tired people are going to be of thinking about and talking about Brexit, especially by 2021. I expect an awful lot of people will just be grateful to achieve some kind of result where they don't have to hear about it for years to come. This probably goes double for MP's. Are Conservative backbenchers going to love this complex and controversial project which occupies 95% of the government's time, and over which they have basically no real say, forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Question for Brexit voters- would you rather have David Davis or Keir Starmer looking after these negotiations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdabush Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 10 hours ago, bickster said: It’ll take them a decade to realise what’s happened If the tabloids tell them it’s a good deal for the UK then they will believe it. It doesn’t matter what the reality is as long as we have ‘taken back control’ in the popular press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 10, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2017 Less than 2 days and they are trying to walk back the deal already. Absolute ruinous dimwits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 1 hour ago, bickster said: Less than 2 days and they are trying to walk back the deal already. Absolute ruinous dimwits There is nothing about this that says our government is acting in good faith. The reputational damage caused by the incompetence and duplicity of the regime attaches to us, unfortunately. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 The attitude, incompetence and lack of connection with reality displayed by Davis in the thread below is unreal. He is in the position he is purely for reasons of internal tory party management. In a rational universe, or in any context where he had to display a modicum of ability and common sense to get the job, he would have been given the bum's rush. Because of May's weakness (partly self-inflicted through poor political judgement, partly inevitable because the tory party cannot reconcile its warring wings over Europe), he "leads" our "negotiations". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) I see the Master Negotiator has been on the airwaves today trying to negotiate himself out of the shit he got himself in to yesterday. What an arse. Edited December 11, 2017 by snowychap 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2017 18 minutes ago, snowychap said: I see the Master Negotiator has been on the airwaves today trying to negotiate himself out of the shit he got himself in to yesterday. What an arse. He's not an arse, arses provide a number of useful functions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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