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Villaphan04

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still dont get the hate about it, I think its good for the game as will develop better players than they already have in China plus is it really any different than what Chelsea, City or PSG have done in last 10 years or so

on another note I know a squad of 25 players that have played in Premier League that could be marketable to Chinese fans, no fee needed just take them away

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21 hours ago, Zatman said:

still dont get the hate about it, I think its good for the game as will develop better players than they already have in China plus is it really any different than what Chelsea, City or PSG have done in last 10 years or so

on another note I know a squad of 25 players that have played in Premier League that could be marketable to Chinese fans, no fee needed just take them away

It will all end in tears.

PSG are buying world class footballers and is built on firm foundations.

Chinese clubs are buying third rate dross for tens of millions hoping the crowds and investment are going to come. It won't.

I would rather watch a 90 year old Pirlo, Kaka, Gerrard or Keane than an in prime Ramires or Martinez.

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3 teams in league nearly average 40,000 a game, Atletico Madrid paid 35 million euros for Martinez in summer are they also buying 3rd rate players? Is it any different for City paying 50 million for Sterling

Chelsea have been owned for 12 years by Abramovich and I cant remember one youth player coming through the system so dont think foundations are that firm

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4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

3 teams in league nearly average 40,000 a game, Atletico Madrid paid 35 million euros for Martinez in summer are they also buying 3rd rate players? Is it any different for City paying 50 million for Sterling

Chelsea have been owned for 12 years by Abramovich and I cant remember one youth player coming through the system so dont think foundations are that firm

He certainly proved to be one at that level.

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your personal rating of the players or the general consensus of them here is irrelevant, if they are putting bums on seats there and sponsorship money in the clubs pockets then its job done

look at their clubs, jiangsu suning, never heard of them, spent £70m in january, they play in a 60k seater stadium that is 15 years old, in a city bigger than london, owned by a company that has a turnover of $16bn who's head has a personal fortune of $5.5bn

they have a potential audience of 1.35bn people in their own country alone... like all things china im not sure why people are so convinced that it will fail that they are almost willing it to do so, if they are sensible and spend money behind the scenes on infrastructure and the national team then they have every chance of succeeding, more so than the MLS (by a distance IMO, less competitive market, no rules stopping their own progress, more money)

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Just now, villa4europe said:

your personal rating of the players or the general consensus of them here is irrelevant, if they are putting bums on seats there and sponsorship money in the clubs pockets then its job done, martinez and ramires are massive signings for them when you compare them to the standard of the league

look at their clubs, jiangsu suning, never heard of them, spent £70m in january, they play in a 60k seater stadium that is 15 years old, in a city bigger than london, owned by a company that has a turnover of $16bn who's head has a personal fortune of $5.5bn

they have a potential audience of 1.35bn people in their own country alone... like all things china im not sure why people are so convinced that it will fail that they are almost willing it to do so, if they are sensible and spend money behind the scenes on infrastructure and the national team then they have every chance of succeeding, more so than the MLS (by a distance IMO, less competitive market, no rules stopping their own progress, more money)

 

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Isn't there a limit on the amount of foreign players they can have in the squad? Maybe that might be the problem for them going forward otherwise in my opinion they could overtake MLS pretty easily (probably could still do) and I'd imagine the likes of Sky etc might be interested in the coverage.

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not sure what point im actually trying to prove tbf...if you use us as a benchmark for the 16 teams -

15 play in cities bigger than brum, most are single teams in huge cities, 12 of them play in cities bigger than london, you can look at hebei and say they are in qinhuangdao, its a smaller city, they are still the only team in Hebei, a region of 73m people...the potential catchment areas of these teams is ridiculous

8 of them play in stadiums bigger than VP, the majority of them have been built in the last 20 years (and tbf there are several larger newer stadiums in the country that arent used for football, birds nest being the obvious one but also the big one in guangzhou)

as for the owners...most of them seem to be owned by huge companies rather than individuals, lerner obviously no longer has a company but for a comparison MBNA's turnover is around $6bn a year and his personal wealth is about $1.5bn (apparently) he's be pretty much middle of the road in terms of wealth there, the guy who owns guangzhou evergrande, jack ma, i think is the 28th richest person in the world

this might not be 100% accurate but i think the worlds richest individual investors in football, roman is worth around $10bn, arsenals usmanov is worth circa $10bn, jack ma is worth $22.7bn, wang jianlin is worth $24.2bn, there are approx 200 billionaires in china

 

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8 hours ago, Zatman said:

the Chinese president has said he wants China to win the World Cup in 2026 so the government is backing this as well

Can't even beat Hong Kong atm so unless they naturalise some of the imports like Qatar did I suggest it will be a longer wait than 10 years.

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2 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Can't even beat Hong Kong atm so unless they naturalise some of the imports like Qatar did I suggest it will be a longer wait than 10 years.

sure Greece were a whipping boys of Europe not too long ago yet won the Euros same with Iceland, Turkey and Wales

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On 2/21/2016 at 15:08, Zatman said:

also saw Jelavic joined a 2nd division team so is money through out the league by look of it and not hampered by FFP

 

 Both the top and 2nd division were among the 5 highest spending leagues in the winter transfer window.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Really good article from Tim Vickery here....sort of what I was saying, if South American teams call up players from Asia, not only is the travelling a nightmare but the overall quality of the squad will go down as these players are now playing at a far lower standard than what they face in europe so the intensity drops.

Quote

Rounds five and six of South America's marathon World Cup qualification campaign take place later this month. The previous two rounds were played in November -- and the global game has moved on since then.

One of the big developments of the last few months has been the Chinese spending spree. South American players have featured on the shopping lists of many clubs in China -- which has left the continent's coaches with something of a dilemma. Do they bring their players all the way back from the Far East?

Colombia's Jose Pekerman has already given a strong indication that neither striker Jackson Martinez nor midfielder Fredy Guarin will be named in the squad to take on Bolivia and Ecuador. Pekerman has specifically referred to the travelling time that would be necessary to bring them back from China -- too debilitating, he feels, for them to be operating at full potential in the most competitive World Cup qualifiers on the planet.

It is, perhaps, a relatively easy decision for Pekerman to take. Both Martinez and Guarin have played in the current campaign, but neither are key players. There has always been a feeling that Pekerman was not fully convinced by Martinez and Guarin, though he strikes the ball well, has been more smoke than fire in his international career.

Had he not sustained an injury over the weekend, it's highly likely that Miller Bolanos would have take the field for Ecuador in the afternoon heat of Barranquilla on March 29 versus Colombia. In this surprising campaign -- Ecuador have won all four matches -- Bolanos has been ever present. The support striker was caught up in a January transfer window soap opera, with his club side Emelec putting out feelers and waiting for offers.

Shortly before the window closed it seemed certain that Bolanos would be joining the Chinese exodus. But then national team coach Gustavo Quinteros got in touch.

The player and coach have a special bond -- it was Quinteros who unlocked the potential of Bolanos at Emelec and then took him into the national team. And Quinteros made it clear that a move to the Far East would not be good for the player's international career. The move to China quickly fell through, and Bolanos signed for Gremio in Brazil.

Argentina, meanwhile, have a decision to make over winger Ezequiel Lavezzi. The winger has played in all four of his country's matches in the current campaign. Will coach Gerardo Martino keep him in the squad and call him all the way back from China? He might well see Lavezzi's move Far East as an opportunity to fast-track some of Argentina's younger generation of attackers, such as Pablo Dybala and Angel Correa.

Brazil coach Dunga, though, has already made his position clear. He was the first coach to name his squad for the coming matches -- Brazil host Uruguay and then visit Paraguay. And he has retained midfielder Renato Augusto and centre back Gil, both of whom swapped domestic champions Corinthians for Chinese football in January.

Dunga noted, however, that these players will now be seen by the public with a certain suspicion; any slip ups will be attributed to their presence in a league still seen as on the periphery of the global game.

Renato Augusto Brazilian fans will likely judge Renato Augusto more harshly now that he plies his trade in China.

Brazilian players have long been favoured transfer targets of Chinese clubs. The mass exodus in January was by no means the first movement in this direction. Two previous members of Dunga's squad, strikers Diego Tardelli and Ricardo Goulart, had already gone east. Goulart was a reserve, but the mobile Tardelli was briefly first choice in what has become a problem position at centre-forward. He was an interesting option -- but soon after the move to China he was quietly discarded.

Will it be any different in the case of Renato Augusto? The tall, elegant midfielder made a difference to the team when he was introduced for the last round at home to Peru. His passing from deep gave Brazil a dimension they had been missing. His long term future, though, is always a doubt; he has a worrying injury record, which, as he had the honesty to admit, was the overwhelming reason for accepting the offer from China. Dunga clearly needs to investigate other options, but for the time being Renato Augusto brings something useful to the squad.

The case of Gil is perhaps more political. He played in the match against Peru, covering for the suspended David Luiz. But he is not seen as a likely first choice, especially with the development of the promising Marquinhos. So why bring Gil all the way back from China?

Surely the explanation here has something to do with the rift between Dunga and Thiago Silva -- a centre-back so outstanding that he was included by Brazil captain Neymar in an ideal 5-a-side team. Dunga, though, is unconvinced, troubled by what he perceives as the player's emotional weakness. His first act as coach was to strip Thiago Silva of the captaincy and leave him on the bench, and after a year he was left out of the squad altogether.

Rather than help a superb player perform to his potential, Dunga prefers to reject him. Leaving out Gil, then, would mean calling up another centre-back instead of Thiago Silva -- a decision that would be hard to explain on technical grounds, and would open up plenty of controversy. Dunga opted to oblige Gil to clock up the air miles, even if he is going to sit on the bench.

It is because of this type of conduct that Dunga took a big right hand from Tostao, a 1970 great and Brazil's wisest football pundit. In his newspaper column on Sunday, Tostao wrote: "I see Dunga increasingly a hostage of his dogmatism, petty little rules and his incapacity to see anything apart from the mirror."

Thus, the matches against Uruguay and Paraguay could well make or break Dunga's second stint in charge of the Selecao.

http://www.espnfc.com/team/brazil/205/blog/post/2823992/south-america-chinese-super-league-stars-under-microscope

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