striker Posted August 9, 2019 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2019 What I’ve seen of Davis he has a better first touch than Tammy which is why the manager didn’t farm him out on loan. I have every confidence in the manager’s coaching ability therefore to improve Davis’s weaknesses and along with O’Hare Villa will have two top young Premiership players to be proud of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Davis has shown flashes of what he can do. The game against Norwich springs to mind. It's a real pity he didn't get more game time in the Championship. He could be very useful from the bench and he seems to have the right attitude. DS has clearly seen enough in him over the summer to think he is worth a place in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, nick76 said: The only problem with that is I believe that is less about coaching and more natural instinct. The game is so fast at premier league level that natural instinct gets you into the right positions otherwise more players would be strikers. For me there is a reason a scoring striker is that way, they just always seem to be in the right place. You can coach certain plays so Davis knows where the ball is going to be in certain plays or set pieces but being in the right place at the right time is instinct for anything else....that's why goal scoring midfielders and strikers are at such a premium. For me, the use of Davis, if we have to, is as people have said....play up to Davis and midfielders run off him to score. I would point to the rise of Raheem Sterling. Pep has been very vocal about the amount of work he has spent on Raheem, a player he recognised as having bag of gile, agility, directness and pace. Sterling before Pep was a frustrating highlight-reel player, that would tend to receive the ball out wide and lose possession as a result of headless-chicken runs (ala Adama)...he was labelled a flop. However, Pep used methods such as spray-painting markings on the pitch to show where he should be in each phase of play, and the result is Raheem being the most lethal wide forwards in the league (if not maybe the world?). Sterling now bags for fun by being in the "right positions". In Davis there is a player with all the tools needed to be a top centre-forward, he has strength, technical ability, good vision, attitude and energy. So I firmly elieve that with work on the training pitch you can mould a 21-year old player to read the game and pop up in right-positions....it all relies on the quality of the coaching (worth noting Davis has arguably not received high-quality attacking coaching), so the question is, is that do we believe Dean's attacking coaching set-up has the ability to achieve what has been done at City? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, nick76 said: The only problem with that is I believe that is less about coaching and more natural instinct. The game is so fast at premier league level that natural instinct gets you into the right positions otherwise more players would be strikers. For me there is a reason a scoring striker is that way, they just always seem to be in the right place. You can coach certain plays so Davis knows where the ball is going to be in certain plays or set pieces but being in the right place at the right time is instinct for anything else....that's why goal scoring midfielders and strikers are at such a premium. For me, the use of Davis, if we have to, is as people have said....play up to Davis and midfielders run off him to score. I agree that there is an instinctive element to football in general and that is probably at its most obvious for strikers. However we shouldn’t underestimate the role that good coaching and hard work play in allowing that instinct to come out and flourish. Thierry Henry wasn’t thought to be a natural goal scorer when he arrived at Arsenal, similarly Glen Hoddle didn’t consider Micheal Owen to be a top goal scorer when he first got into the England team. I’m not suggesting that Davis will ever be that good, or even that he will ever be an instinctive goal scorer, but all elements of his game can and will be developed. As an instinctively cleaver man once said, genius is 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration. If he works hard and listens to our excellent coaching staff, he has every chance of becoming an extremely good Premier League striker. After all this is his first proper preseason with our coaches, the less said the better about the previous ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Herman22 said: Davis has shown flashes of what he can do. The game against Norwich springs to mind. It's a real pity he didn't get more game time in the Championship. He could be very useful from the bench and he seems to have the right attitude. DS has clearly seen enough in him over the summer to think he is worth a place in the squad. I think going for promotion, made it tricky to play too many players developing......when mid table is acceptable and more better quality around them,its a bit easier to integrate them. Edited August 9, 2019 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, carewjust4u said: I would point to the rise of Raheem Sterling. Pep has been very vocal about the amount of work he has spent on Raheem, a player he recognised as having bag of gile, agility, directness and pace. Sterling before Pep was a frustrating highlight-reel player, that would tend to receive the ball out wide and lose possession as a result of headless-chicken runs (ala Adama)...he was labelled a flop. However, Pep used methods such as spray-painting markings on the pitch to show where he should be in each phase of play, and the result is Raheem being the most lethal wide forwards in the league (if not maybe the world?). Sterling now bags for fun by being in the "right positions". In Davis there is a player with all the tools needed to be a top centre-forward, he has strength, technical ability, good vision, attitude and energy. So I firmly elieve that with work on the training pitch you can mould a 21-year old player to read the game and pop up in right-positions....it all relies on the quality of the coaching (worth noting Davis has arguably not received high-quality attacking coaching), so the question is, is that do we believe Dean's attacking coaching set-up has the ability to achieve what has been done at City? I share your view.....positional awareness is paramount......for ALL positions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May-Z Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I would argue that the way Wesley played in pre-season was very similar to Davis with the added element of picking more difficult passes. I mean, how many times did we see Wesley really threaten apart from against Walsall? He still looked excellent. I have been very impressed with Wesley and rate Davis highly but their main style is playing deep and bringing others in. Neither of them seem to push the box in the way that Tammy did...but then he wasn't as good at the link up play. One of Smith's strengths is keeping the playing style the same even when players change. Davis allows us to do that if Wesley is out better than anybody. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 20 hours ago, carewjust4u said: I would point to the rise of Raheem Sterling. Pep has been very vocal about the amount of work he has spent on Raheem, a player he recognised as having bag of gile, agility, directness and pace. Sterling before Pep was a frustrating highlight-reel player, that would tend to receive the ball out wide and lose possession as a result of headless-chicken runs (ala Adama)...he was labelled a flop. However, Pep used methods such as spray-painting markings on the pitch to show where he should be in each phase of play, and the result is Raheem being the most lethal wide forwards in the league (if not maybe the world?). Sterling now bags for fun by being in the "right positions". In Davis there is a player with all the tools needed to be a top centre-forward, he has strength, technical ability, good vision, attitude and energy. So I firmly elieve that with work on the training pitch you can mould a 21-year old player to read the game and pop up in right-positions....it all relies on the quality of the coaching (worth noting Davis has arguably not received high-quality attacking coaching), so the question is, is that do we believe Dean's attacking coaching set-up has the ability to achieve what has been done at City? There is always 1 success story and 1 million failures although I would argue that Man City had paid 44m for this player you mention in 2015, that’s a bit different to a 2019 value of Davis. It’s a fair point you raise though, I don’t agree but I take your point. We have nothing to lose as he’s our player and we don’t have many options in that position after Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) I like Davis, but he has a finishing problem that needs to be addressed. His hold up play is excellent, has a deceptive turn of pace, good touch and close control, in fact has underrated vision and can play some nice passes when you don't expect him to, but his finishing appears to be dreadful. He certainly can be a useful impact player at this level and hopefully coaching can improve him in front of goal. I think he can be more effective than Kodjia as a back up forward in many ways. Edited August 10, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 20 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: I agree that there is an instinctive element to football in general and that is probably at its most obvious for strikers. However we shouldn’t underestimate the role that good coaching and hard work play in allowing that instinct to come out and flourish. Thierry Henry wasn’t thought to be a natural goal scorer when he arrived at Arsenal, similarly Glen Hoddle didn’t consider Micheal Owen to be a top goal scorer when he first got into the England team. I’m not suggesting that Davis will ever be that good, or even that he will ever be an instinctive goal scorer, but all elements of his game can and will be developed. As an instinctively cleaver man once said, genius is 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration. If he works hard and listens to our excellent coaching staff, he has every chance of becoming an extremely good Premier League striker. After all this is his first proper preseason with our coaches, the less said the better about the previous ones. Not even going to argue this as you are comparing apples and pears. I watched Owen from when he broke onto the scene......it’s not even a comparable, you could see the pure talent in Owen and that the natural scoring was there and he debuted for England just when he turned 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, nick76 said: Not even going to argue this as you are comparing apples and pears. I watched Owen from when he broke onto the scene......it’s not even a comparable, you could see the pure talent in Owen and that the natural scoring was there and he debuted for England just when he turned 18. I wasn’t really comparing him with either Henry or Owen, I was just using them to illustrate that even the best take time to develop. I do agree that I thought Hoddle’s comment that Owen wasn’t a natural goal scorer was strange at the time. That to me was always his main attribute. However the football scrap heap is littered with players with incredible talent that didn’t work hard enough, or didn’t find themselves in the right place at the right time to take full advantage of their talent. Henry and Owen did both. Hopefully Davis will do the same and at least be the best he can be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Davis = Heskey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, KHV said: Davis = Heskey If Davis has a career as good as Heskey he will have done very well for himself, and we'll make a fortune off him selling him, or save a fortune by producing him from the academy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 21 hours ago, May-Z said: I would argue that the way Wesley played in pre-season was very similar to Davis with the added element of picking more difficult passes. I mean, how many times did we see Wesley really threaten apart from against Walsall? He still looked excellent. I have been very impressed with Wesley and rate Davis highly but their main style is playing deep and bringing others in. Neither of them seem to push the box in the way that Tammy did...but then he wasn't as good at the link up play. One of Smith's strengths is keeping the playing style the same even when players change. Davis allows us to do that if Wesley is out better than anybody. I actually think this is slightly unfair on Tammy. Many occasions last season he dropped deeper to receive the pass with his back to goal and link with the midfield and wider players. The first example that springs to mind is the play off final where he picks the ball up in our half and side steps a challenge before being brought down, in the process he played a class ball forward to El Ghazi who was through only for the ref to blow the whistle. His hold up play was also very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 3 hours ago, skarroki said: If Davis has a career as good as Heskey he will have done very well for himself, and we'll make a fortune off him selling him, or save a fortune by producing him from the academy. Really liked the Heskey but how the heck did his luck survive to have such a good career, it just baffles me. Some players you just at and think how are you making a consistent top end appearance in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May-Z Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 3 hours ago, avfc1982am said: I actually think this is slightly unfair on Tammy. Many occasions last season he dropped deeper to receive the pass with his back to goal and link with the midfield and wider players. The first example that springs to mind is the play off final where he picks the ball up in our half and side steps a challenge before being brought down, in the process he played a class ball forward to El Ghazi who was through only for the ref to blow the whistle. His hold up play was also very good. Yep, agree with you. I think Davis is much more reliable at making it 'stick' though. A few times Tammy was caught trying to turn first time and led to a counter attack goal against us (Blues at home maybe?) Undoubtedly Tammy is a better player but that would be an area I'd say he needs to work on a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Is he injured again? Not saying we'd have held out but his skillset of holding onto the ball was really needed for last 30 minutes. If he was fit putting Lansbury on bench ahead of him is a bit of a baffling one to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted August 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 10, 2019 In the context of the season as a whole, today might well be a good day for Keinan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Feet Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Would of been a better option than Kodjia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 He was exactly what we needed for the last 20 minutes. Has a big part to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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