Keinan Davis

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, HeyAnty said:

20k per week he is apparently looking 

He should be getting what RHM is on at the very least to be fair!

[Demitri_C]

5 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No. He has had a handful of good appearances in the Championship and has not done anywhere near enough to be put on 20k+ a week. 

These things have to be a two way thing. He was let go by Stevenage not so long ago and now finds himself playing for the biggest club in the second tier and a club well in the mix for promotion back to the top flight.

I am sure we are offering him a very decent contract as we are not known as a club that scrimps on wages. He needs to sign it and continue what he is doing and he will then have a great future here and earn an absolute fortune as he is part of taking the club back to where it should be.

Some valid points there mark but in the bigger picture we coukd lose a hell of a lot more if he leaves and we ger a small tribunal fee.

Hopefully there will be compromise from both parties.  Keinan cant forget what tgis club has done for him.

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Some valid points there mark but in the bigger picture we coukd lose a hell of a lot more if he leaves and we ger a small tribunal fee.

Hopefully there will be compromise from both parties.  Keinan cant forget what tgis club has done for him.

The bigger picture is also we don't want to be setting precedents by putting very young players on big contracts after a few good games. I don't think that does the player, in terms of his hunger, or the club any favours. 

I am confident the club are offering him a good contract. He needs to sign it and focus on continuing his development. The big contracts will take care of themselves.

[rodders0223]

No player you hope to retain should have been allowed to reach the last 12 months of their deal without an agreement being reached.

So basically he or more specifically his agent, has us over a barrel now.

Saying that, Keinan has not had much of a football education, has a lot of catch up to do and is getting regular game time at a good level. He would be very foolish to chuck that for a quick payday.

[mikeyp102]

9 hours ago, briny_ear said:

I know it doesn’t happen but it's a shame we can’t make it performance related. Bruce says he needs to score more goals, so give him a contract with payment linked to scoring more goals. Happens an awful lot in other sectors but not in football I think.

But his game is more than goals. Yes we'd like to see him score more, but if bonus is purely goal related then you get greedy play ala Kodjia.

With a young player like Davis the contact should increase by hitting a number of games, that way as long as Davis is contributing img to the team he continues  he get picked and thus his pay will eventually raise.

[OutByEaster?]

From a financial perspective, this is a £20m asset that needs to be secured before we lose it for £5m. 

That puts Keinan and his representatives in a very strong negotiating position, whether they're after money or they're after the ability to be able to make a move cheaply when the time comes - it's very difficult with a player that comes out of nowhere and is suddenly worth a huge amount more than he was six months ago, but it's vital that we reach a deal, especially given that a future Keinan might end up being vital to our ability to strengthen the squad under FFP.

 

 

[Djemba_Villan]

I know it’s a massive risk but I for one would not hammer the club if we somehow lost him to tribunal if the demands are anywhere near those being mentioned for several reasons:-

— Motivation - How many tines have we seen young players sign such deals at villa, fizzle out, then only start trying again when that deal runs out 

- Precedent - if Davis gets £20k. After a few good games what would stop O’Hare, Green, Steer, <next young hotshot) etc asking for the same or more after a bit of form. It also raises the general benchmark for salaries.

- Sustainability - we must remember we are in the Championship and FFP will hammer us next year if we don’t go up. It’s an enormous risk to throw money around. I can’t imagine anyone saying ‘Just pay it’ will be happy if we have to flog a good 1st team player next year when we’re over the limit. Also remember we still have a number of ‘stars’ on PL Wages on the books which we can’t just give away.

- Experience - Stefan Moore. Luke Moore, Nathan Delfouneso, Bannan etc. Have all looked as good if not better than Davis (at a higher level also) at some point. By Saying the same will happen but we need to do everything possible to keep Davis grounded. 

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

4 minutes ago, Djemba_Villan said:

- Sustainability - we must remember we are in the Championship and FFP will hammer us next year if we don’t go up. It’s an enormous risk to throw money around. I can’t imagine anyone saying ‘Just pay it’ will be happy if we have to flog a good 1st team player next year when we’re over the limit. Also remember we still have a number of ‘stars’ on PL Wages on the books which we can’t just give away.

It's for this that I'd like us to sign him up. In terms of resale value, I think he's hugely important. Kodjia might get us about £10m, Hourihan might get up to that level at a push, but of those we own, we're not getting money for Elmo, Hutton, Terry, Whelan, Jedinak, DeLaet, Samba, Gabby, Richards, Elphick, Adomah or Bunn - they're all on their last contracts - and we won't get too much for Chester at 29 or Taylor at 28.

We have appalling residual value in our squad, especially considering how much they cost us. I'd like to see Davis tied down because I have a feeling he's the most valuable asset this squad has financially - he IS the good 1st team player we'll need to sell to replace the dozen older players we have in the squad.

 

 

 

[DCJonah]

It's a tough one, everything is in his court and to be fair to him why wouldn't he be looking for the most money possible. 

I think we need to bite the bullet, accept the unique situation we find ourselves in and pay him a fair amount for an important striker in this league. 

When he sees Ross earning £40,000 a week on holiday in Australia and Hogan earning the same unable to control or pass a ball, why wouldn't he be looking for his fair share?

If we lose him it would be a sorry situation. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by DCJonah

[Demitri_C]

34 minutes ago, Djemba_Villan said:

I know it’s a massive risk but I for one would not hammer the club if we somehow lost him to tribunal if the demands are anywhere near those being mentioned for several reasons:-

— Motivation - How many tines have we seen young players sign such deals at villa, fizzle out, then only start trying again when that deal runs out 

- Precedent - if Davis gets £20k. After a few good games what would stop O’Hare, Green, Steer, <next young hotshot) etc asking for the same or more after a bit of form. It also raises the general benchmark for salaries.

- Sustainability - we must remember we are in the Championship and FFP will hammer us next year if we don’t go up. It’s an enormous risk to throw money around. I can’t imagine anyone saying ‘Just pay it’ will be happy if we have to flog a good 1st team player next year when we’re over the limit. Also remember we still have a number of ‘stars’ on PL Wages on the books which we can’t just give away.

- Experience - Stefan Moore. Luke Moore, Nathan Delfouneso, Bannan etc. Have all looked as good if not better than Davis (at a higher level also) at some point. By Saying the same will happen but we need to do everything possible to keep Davis grounded. 

 

 

Difference all those you mentioned flopped everywhere else they went and did not do well once they left us. Davis with right coaching can be a top striker in the premier league

[DCJonah]

42 minutes ago, Djemba_Villan said:

I know it’s a massive risk but I for one would not hammer the club if we somehow lost him to tribunal if the demands are anywhere near those being mentioned for several reasons:-

— Motivation - How many tines have we seen young players sign such deals at villa, fizzle out, then only start trying again when that deal runs out 

- Precedent - if Davis gets £20k. After a few good games what would stop O’Hare, Green, Steer, <next young hotshot) etc asking for the same or more after a bit of form. It also raises the general benchmark for salaries.

- Sustainability - we must remember we are in the Championship and FFP will hammer us next year if we don’t go up. It’s an enormous risk to throw money around. I can’t imagine anyone saying ‘Just pay it’ will be happy if we have to flog a good 1st team player next year when we’re over the limit. Also remember we still have a number of ‘stars’ on PL Wages on the books which we can’t just give away.

- Experience - Stefan Moore. Luke Moore, Nathan Delfouneso, Bannan etc. Have all looked as good if not better than Davis (at a higher level also) at some point. By Saying the same will happen but we need to do everything possible to keep Davis grounded. 

 

 

The big difference is contract length. If players kick up a fuss, the club still has some power and will ultimately get a fee if they lose them. 

With this situation we have a young player, pretty much come out of nowhere to be excellent in the first team with only months left on his deal. It's a unique situation and we need to react to that IMO rather than worry about possible knock on effects. 

As long as we protect ourselves with other players it shouldn't be too much of an issue. 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, briny_ear said:

I know it doesn’t happen but it's a shame we can’t make it performance related. Bruce says he needs to score more goals, so give him a contract with payment linked to scoring more goals. Happens an awful lot in other sectors but not in football I think.

Brin.....I asked that question directly to Ron Atkinson, he said....."you'd never sign anybody on that basis"

but you're point is valid.

Edited November 4, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

its par for the course.....nothing to worry about....typical football negotiations.

we might be stupid, but we're not daft.

Edited November 4, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

9 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No. He has had a handful of good appearances in the Championship and has not done anywhere near enough to be put on 20k+ a week. 

These things have to be a two way thing. He was let go by Stevenage not so long ago and now finds himself playing for the biggest club in the second tier and a club well in the mix for promotion back to the top flight.

I am sure we are offering him a very decent contract as we are not known as a club that scrimps on wages. He needs to sign it and continue what he is doing and he will then have a great future here and earn an absolute fortune as he is part of taking the club back to where it should be.

I agree Mark

you have to let folk stretch a bit to get the best out of them, its no good laying it on a plate.....it will all be sorted to our/his satisfaction.

Edited November 4, 2017 by TRO

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

The bigger picture is also we don't want to be setting precedents by putting very young players on big contracts after a few good games. I don't think that does the player, in terms of his hunger, or the club any favours. 

I am confident the club are offering him a good contract. He needs to sign it and focus on continuing his development. The big contracts will take care of themselves.

You may be right, but no agent will ever advise that.  

[Dr_Pangloss]

Well done Villa on letting this contract run down, fantastic thinking from all involved.

[Dr_Pangloss]

11 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No. He has had a handful of good appearances in the Championship and has not done anywhere near enough to be put on 20k+ a week. 

These things have to be a two way thing. He was let go by Stevenage not so long ago and now finds himself playing for the biggest club in the second tier and a club well in the mix for promotion back to the top flight.

I am sure we are offering him a very decent contract as we are not known as a club that scrimps on wages. He needs to sign it and continue what he is doing and he will then have a great future here and earn an absolute fortune as he is part of taking the club back to where it should be.

So far this season he is looking much better than players on that and more. We're paying for our own stupidity here, we had every chance to tie him down before this season.

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

From a financial perspective, this is a £20m asset that needs to be secured before we lose it for £5m. 

 

I think we are getting massively ahead of ourselves here. He has put in some very decent performances for us this season most notably against Barnsley and Preston. It is little more than a handful of games so far though and a period where he has scored two goals.

He looks to have something but so have a lot of young players over the years for us. In fact some have shined initially in the top flight and then quickly disappeared into oblivion.

I accept he should be rewarded and I am sure the contract the club have offered does that. We can't allow him/his agent to demand silly money though based on what still is very little.

He does what he is doing now over the rest of the season then I am certain he will be looking at an another improved contact at the end of the season. Give him that carrot to aim for and keep him hungry rather than give him too much now and potentially see him lose that hunger.

There is a balance to be struck and I am confident the club will find it and he'll sign.

Edited November 4, 2017 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

7 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think we are getting massively ahead of ourselves here. He has put in some very decent performances for us this season most notably against Barnsley and Preston. It is little more than a handful of games so far though and a period where he has scored two goals.

He looks to have something but so have a lot of young players over the years for us. In fact some have shined initially in the topflight and then quickly disappeared into oblivion.

I accept he should be rewarded and I am sure the contract the club have offered does that. We can't allow him/his agent to demand silly money though based on what still is very little.

He does what he is doing now over the rest of the season then I am certain he will be looking at an another improved contact at the end of the season. Give him that carrot to aim for and keep him hungry rather than give him too much now and potentially see him lose that hunger.

There is a balance to be struck and I am confident the club will find it and he'll sign.

Spot on. How is Grealish doing since being labelled the next big thing and being given his big contract?

People are going way over the top about this lad.

[Demitri_C]

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