Keinan Davis

[VillaChris]

7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Yeah it might be best if he goes out on loan, if not sold.  If are going to move up a level generally with players across the team he's just not this level already so go out and prove himself in the Championship and then reassess.  Today was a chance for him to really put himself about especially as both teams were at the beach and even though lack of service, he didnt put himself about like a player who wanted to prove himself and say to the manager that he wants to stay in the first XI.  This was a chance to say to Dean, he has a future here and he didnt take it.  It's only one game but I wouldve expected more from him in terms of effort and pressure on the Everton defence.  He really didnt change my opinion of him one bit and that disappoints me.

I wouldn't say he wasn't trying....I think the issue is he just dosen't have that striker's instinct mentally. Not just to score but to make the runs to get in positions to score.

Too often a cross comes in and he's on his heels and a yard or two off getting it. Now you might say poor misdirected cross....but look at the run Cavani made to score v us on Sunday. He just jogs for that and he's 2-3 yards off it. Same when Ollie scored v I think Burnley, Targett does a nice cross but he still needs to make the run ahead of the defender to poke it in.

Just don't think Davis has that sort of anticipation in a live match situation so unless we're seriously working with him on at Bodymoor that will always be a limited aspect of his game.

I would honestly sit him down after training tomorrow and make him watch Cavani's goal again 20 times as that was simply a brilliant piece of forward play in how to score from a reasonable cross.

Edited May 13, 2021 by VillaChris

[thunderball]

Its a pity.

Doesnt work in full games which is hardly surprsing as he never gets the chance. I think the club need a better player and he needs a club better suited to him in order that he can showcase his talent. I think he would make a great Championship player in a front two at the moment. He is still young, he has a decent career in front of him but just not with us or at this level. 

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I wouldn't say he wasn't trying....I think the issue is he just dosen't have that striker's instinct mentally. Not just to score but to make the runs to get in positions to score.

Too often a cross comes in and he's on his heels and a yard or two off getting it. Now you might say poor misdirected cross....but look at the run Cavani made to score v us on Sunday. He just jogs for that and he's 2-3 yards off it. Same when Ollie scored v I think Burnley, Targett does a nice cross but he still needs to make the run ahead of the defender to poke it in.

Just don't think Davis has that sort of anticipation in a live match situation so unless we're seriously working with him on at Bodymoor that will always be a limited aspect of his game.

I would honestly sit him down after training tomorrow and make him watch Cavani's goal again 20 times as that was simply a brilliant piece of forward play in how to score from a reasonable cross.

I reckon they do because they will see the same issues as we do.  Can’t imagine as part of the training that they don’t watch videos, watch movement plays, improving striking.  The same with improving all players attributes.  Maybe it’s just not meant to be with him and that natural instinct needs to be there and he doesn’t have it and he isn’t getting that into his game.

[jackbauer24]

Why is it so difficult to see he's simply not a Premier League/ Championship quality player?! (I'd argue League One!)

Full 90 minutes, doesn't get many (which shows he demonstrates little in training) and really what did he do well? We had a lot of possession in the first half and yet he wasn't an option for our midfield. He should have been desperate to make an impact and yet he didn't bust a gut or create spaces or even win that many duels considering his strength. He strolled around like Barkley.

Furthermore, the one time he got in to an advanced position he didn't have the sense to look up, and smashed a ball across the box to nobody. He should slow it down from that angle, look at the options. He doesn't create, he doesn't score and he actually doesn't work. He can hold the ball up by putting his body in the way of it and the opponent, but when it comes to doing anything with it he is severely lacking.

Can we stop this dream of a miracle turnaround please. He wasn't close to the worst player on the pitch... But he was largely anonymous and completely ineffective. There is too much evidence he is not cut out for anything like this level.

 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

@VillaChris I agree.

Davis just isn't savvy enough, doesn't have the nous for it.

But then again even the commentary mentioned he had no service against Everton.

However, I still like him. He holds the ball up, has some skill, strength and a bit of pace, he's just so raw.

I'd like him to stick around, work on his game and watch the aforesaid clips of Cavani.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Zhan_Zhuang

[VillanousOne]

he's 23, i like his drive and attitude and how physical he is, but he needs a proper run of starts to really show what he is made of, the occasional 15-20 min cameo and very rare start isn't really going to show us if he can cut it.

he also isn't a like for like replacement for Olly so swapping them out and not changing the system we play makes little sense.

I think he should and will go out on loan in the summer.
 

Edited May 13, 2021 by VillanousOne

[VillaChris]

34 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Why is it so difficult to see he's simply not a Premier League/ Championship quality player?! (I'd argue League One!)

Full 90 minutes, doesn't get many (which shows he demonstrates little in training) and really what did he do well? We had a lot of possession in the first half and yet he wasn't an option for our midfield. He should have been desperate to make an impact and yet he didn't bust a gut or create spaces or even win that many duels considering his strength. He strolled around like Barkley.

Furthermore, the one time he got in to an advanced position he didn't have the sense to look up, and smashed a ball across the box to nobody. He should slow it down from that angle, look at the options. He doesn't create, he doesn't score and he actually doesn't work. He can hold the ball up by putting his body in the way of it and the opponent, but when it comes to doing anything with it he is severely lacking.

Can we stop this dream of a miracle turnaround please. He wasn't close to the worst player on the pitch... But he was largely anonymous and completely ineffective. There is too much evidence he is not cut out for anything like this level.

 

The club keep giving him contract extensions though so suggests those at very top see something.

And he's actually been quite good in some of the sub cameos recently but completely different to then impact from start in match against top 8 team. He tried but was huff and puff up to 97th minute when he did show good play to get past Allan and win the free kick in very good position.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

40 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Can we stop this dream of a miracle turnaround please. He wasn't close to the worst player on the pitch... But he was largely anonymous and completely ineffective. There is too much evidence he is not cut out for anything like this level.

 

So if he " wasn't close to the worst player on the pitch " , but you think he's a League One level player, what does this say about the rest, and supporting cast?

Edited May 13, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Sulberto21]

Keinan had 35 touches today (Sky sports) pass accuracy was 68 % from 22 passes. He also had 0 shots but 2 key passes. Ollie from memory is usually around 75-77 % accuracy.

[poitier]

I thought he did ok tonight.

We have had several games where Ollie has barely had a kick due to lack of service, so it is a problem with the team play rather than the striker to a large degree. Barkley didn’t do him any favours either with his lack of support. If Davis isn’t getting the ball into him and nobody is getting close enough to benefit from the flick ons then he isn’t going to look very effective.

[MotoMkali]

4 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Keinan had 35 touches today (Sky sports) pass accuracy was 68 % from 22 passes. He also had 0 shots but 2 key passes. Ollie from memory is usually around 75-77 % accuracy.

71.5% according to whoscored. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by MotoMkali

[WooJung]

Looked very isolated, he's probably at his best in crowded spaces, with lots of players around him, which is probably why he works much better as a sub. 

I was expecting a bit more from his hold up play, although to be fair we weren't going direct very much which is probably the best way to get something out of him. 

Barkley was of little assistence too.... 

[Sulberto21]

Just now, MotoMkali said:

73%

61%.

Which game are we playing.?

[ciggiesnbeer]

Someone last year on here said "I think we know what Davis is all about by now." I think thats even more true now.

He just isnt a premier league striker. Simple as that.

Love the guy but for his career and our next season he needs a loan or a move. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by ciggiesnbeer

[MotoMkali]

Just now, Sulberto21 said:

61%.

Which game are we playing.?

Watkins passing accuracy is 71.5%. I just looked it up. I was thinking of his percentage like 10 games ago. 

[Sulberto21]

Just now, WooJung said:

Looked very isolated, he's probably at his best in crowded spaces, with lots of players around him, which is probably why he works much better as a sub. 

I was expecting a bit more from his hold up play, although to be fair we weren't going direct very much which is probably the best way to get something out of him. 

Barkley was of little assistence too.... 

I mentioned in the match thread that the front 3 were too far apart imo. However with Ollie that's fine because he makes up for it with his movement and running.

[Sulberto21]

Just now, MotoMkali said:

Watkins passing accuracy is 71.5%. I just looked it up. I was thinking of his percentage like 10 games ago. 

Fair do's.

[HanoiVillan]

I don't think he lacked effort at all, but he definitely was a bit out of his depth. His strength and power are fine; he looked like he was huffing and puffing a bit in the second half, but he still ran Allan ragged in the final minute so he can't have been that exhausted, so I guess his overall conditioning could be at the right level with a bit more game-time. But as said above, the problem is his positioning, movement and general instinct to be on the end of chances.

I don't see how he develops that with us, maybe getting 5 or 10 minutes cameos every 3rd or 4th game, because if he stays with us I would hope and expect that he will be 3rd or more likely 4th choice next season. For me, the best would be for him to spend a season on loan in the Championship. If he scores 20 goals or whatever, then we can re-think next summer. If he doesn't, but he's alright, then maybe a club will want him and if as I think he then has one year on his deal, that would be a good time to get whatever money we can for him.

It's sad, because I do think he offers something a bit different, but tonight did have the feel of a bit of a swansong for him.

[nick76]

16 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

The club keep giving him contract extensions though so suggests those at very top see something.

He’s cheap, doesn’t cause trouble and people like him personally.  He’s also an extra body for a small squad.  That doesn’t mean the club thinks he’s going to be a difference maker and given the lack of match time would back that up.

[ender4]

1 hour ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

He holds the ball up, has some skill, strength and a bit of pace, he's just so raw.

I'd like him to stick around, work on his game and watch the aforesaid clips of Cavani.

He is raw, and if he was 16-17 then keep him around and work on his game.

At 23 years old, he’s not going to suddenly get twice as good.  

He’ll probably do well in a mid-lower championship team.

Edited May 13, 2021 by ender4