Keinan Davis

[DCJonah]

It's a shame we have Liverpool and City next, as I think had we had slightly easier games, there's a chance he gets a start. 

I'd still be up for seeing it but I can see why we'd try and be more defensive in the next two games. 

[Mjvilla]

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I completely agree and I praised him on this forum in several threads yesterday.  My point since then is that’s not the usual Davis we see is it?  Same with Trez yesterday, same with the El Ghazi in January when he scored those five goals.  Some players seem to do it once in ten, fifteen, twenty games but the next game they are poor.  

i get the whole lack of minutes argument but he’s obviously not doing enough in training to warrant a start.  If he did that in training he’d be starting wouldn’t he.  The coaches aren’t obviously seeing that and that is shown more in this past two months when even poorer players like Trez and El Ghazi are getting material game time but he isn’t.

He did really well yesterday and I was delighted no doubt! That player I will love, the usual Davis can leave and enjoy Championship football next season in my opinion.

This exactly. If he played week in/week out like he did in that cameo yesterday, he'd be pushing for regular starter. We just don't see it anywhere near enough. He's extremely inconsistent, alike the rest of our developing squad. 

We picked him up from the footballing scrapheap really. If he can develop into someone who puts yesterday's performances out more regularly then it's brilliant business. That's the challenge for our coaching staff.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

We'd be a long way from being able to do anything of that nature with the current squad I'd my understanding is correct. 

You can only cross one ball at a time is very true, but the opposite winger has a job to do when the ball is on the other side. The back post. You are a huge advocate of back post prudency so surely missing something here?

Also, in the times where the high press is becoming more and more prevalent (something I don't think we do well enough), having 1 winger just gives the keeper/centre backs of the opposition an easy out ball. The opposite side to the one in which the winger is.

Does a central midfielder come out to close the full back and leave holes in the midfield against our opponents who break so quick usually (Something we tend to do anyway) Does our full back push forward to stop the attack high up thus leaving space in behind? Is one of the 2 strikers (who should both be in the box) supposed to hold off attacking and defend the potential counter leaving us in our original position (and current problematic position) of having one striker and 2 wingers so problem isn't solved? 

I don't know, there's obviously a number of flaws with every formation / style of play. Otherwise every team would play 1 way and 1 way only. Because we are still such a squad in development, it limits what we can do. For sure, in my eyes. 

Another huge summer upcoming, will be fascinating to see what we do. I hope we all get a little bit of what we want. 

 

Good post.....

your understanding is correct IMO.

You are right....no formation, is fool proof, but equally, you cannot cover every eventuality.....my guess is midfielders would drift to the back post, in such circumstances.....but the ability to see the game and its possibilities, is another crucial attribute in a player...its being game management savvy....you have to move around, we tend to wait around for the pass....the top teams play in to space and players run in, that way its hard to close them down....we are just easy targets for the press., subsequently can't get play moving...yesterday Keinan just changed the game by winning the ball high up the pitch and a brilliant cross claimed his assist.....but that one move as basic as it was, changed everything....but yes, we need better quality in midfield, particularly.

I seen a player yesterday, playing a ball and just drifting in to no mans land, I just thought what is that? no intention of a return.....I won't mention him, it will just detract from the point.

It will be fascinating to see where we strengthen, thats for sure.

 

 

[TRO]

24 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Most definitely, I think it would improve us dramatically, we do have a bit of a soft underbelly when things aren’t going our way. Someone who can lead by example and get down and dirty to rally the troops type player

 

I think such a player would have a knock on effect, to the offensive players.....They create a platform to play from.....I think it would help Mings too. as an example Maguire has Pogba or McTominay or Fred....in front of him to help protect him...bit of a difference.

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

This exactly. If he played week in/week out like he did in that cameo yesterday, he'd be pushing for regular starter. We just don't see it anywhere near enough. He's extremely inconsistent, alike the rest of our developing squad. 

We picked him up from the footballing scrapheap really. If he can develop into someone who puts yesterday's performances out more regularly then it's brilliant business. That's the challenge for our coaching staff.

Agree, I think the main responsibility is on Davis to do it though, the coaching staff to help him but he needs do to most of it himself because it’s about his attitude and him wanting it.  He’s at a great club, great coaching and will get his opportunity if he wants it and then if he does he needs to put in performances like yesterday not his usual performance.

Edited April 5, 2021 by nick76

[Tom13]

27 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

This exactly. If he played week in/week out like he did in that cameo yesterday, he'd be pushing for regular starter. We just don't see it anywhere near enough. He's extremely inconsistent, alike the rest of our developing squad.

I tend to disagree tbh. I'd say almost every time Davis plays he has a positive impact. I really like him I must admit. Never loses a dual, causes panic, even showed some very good feet yesterday. If he could learn how to finish he'd be a starter for me.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Agree, I think the main responsibility is on Davis to do it though, the coaching staff to help him but he needs do to most of it himself because it’s about his attitude and him wanting it.  He’s at a great club, great coaching and will get his opportunity if he wants it and then if he does he needs to put in performances like yesterday not his usual performance.

I agree, coaches can only do so much, its intrinsic.

I was listening to Brian Little, talking about Savo/Dwight and Stan Collymore, to Dan Bardell....He said " I only pointed them in the right direction"......" It was all down to them" .....He also said " He looks back now, and thinks he was wrong to play all 3"......very honest of him and shows managers do get it wrong.....but in the main, players do it themselves.....How could you coach Geroge Best?

[Mjvilla]

12 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Agree, I think the main responsibility is on Davis to do it though, the coaching staff to help him but he needs do to most of it himself because it’s about his attitude and him wanting it.  He’s at a great club, great coaching and will get his opportunity if he wants it and then if he does he needs to put in performances like yesterday not his usual performance.

 

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I agree, coaches can only do so much, its intrinsic.

I was listening to Brian Little, talking about Savo/Dwight and Stan Collymore, to Dan Bardell....He said " I only pointed them in the right direction"......" It was all down to them" .....He also said " He looks back now, and thinks he was wrong to play all 3"......very honest of him and shows managers do get it wrong.....but in the main, players do it themselves.....How could you coach Geroge Best?

Of course, the player has to want it and earn it when it comes to making it I'm this game.

My point was more that he came from biggleswade town (I think) so perhaps has lot to learn in comparison to most other strikers who have played/trained alongside seasoned professional players. He may be a late bloomer as a result. I.e Vardy or even our very own Watkins.

I think we can all agree he probably deserves the chance to continue within our squad, developing and playing around better players.

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

I tend to disagree tbh. I'd say almost every time Davis plays he has a positive impact. I really like him I must admit. Never loses a dual, causes panic, even showed some very good feet yesterday. If he could learn how to finish he'd be a starter for me.

So important to me.....I absolutely love watching players win duels....almost as much as scoring goals.

I think its fair to say Tom, even his detractors would agree with your last bit.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

 

Of course, the player has to want it and earn it when it comes to making it I'm this game.

My point was more that he came from biggleswade town (I think) so perhaps has lot to learn in comparison to most other strikers who have played/trained alongside seasoned professional players. He may be a late bloomer as a result. I.e Vardy or even our very own Watkins.

I think we can all agree he probably deserves the chance to continue within our squad, developing and playing around better players.

I want him to stay too.....but I can see the points Nick makes too....and agree with them.

What did Jack say? "strongest player in the club"......surely he could be another Chris Woods or am I being ambitious.

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

 

Of course, the player has to want it and earn it when it comes to making it I'm this game.

My point was more that he came from biggleswade town (I think) so perhaps has lot to learn in comparison to most other strikers who have played/trained alongside seasoned professional players. He may be a late bloomer as a result. I.e Vardy or even our very own Watkins.

I think we can all agree he probably deserves the chance to continue within our squad, developing and playing around better players.

He’s been with us five years to develop, it’s not like he’s just joined us.  He’s been with us all that time.  Ollie was Weston Super Mare five years ago and been at the club this season so I’m not buying the ‘he was at Biggleswade Town’ argument plus Davis was only 17/18 then, not like Jamie Vardy who was at Fleetwood Town when he was 23 years old re late bloomer thing.

Edited April 5, 2021 by nick76

[Sam-AVFC]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think such a player would have a knock on effect, to the offensive players.....They create a platform to play from.....I think it would help Mings too. as an example Maguire has Pogba or McTominay or Fred....in front of him to help protect him...bit of a difference.

I take the point, but Utd are a bad example as any of their fans will tell you none of those are DMs and it's a position they have been and still are desperate for. And our defence has been better than theirs this season.

[bannedfromHandV]

26 minutes ago, nick76 said:

He’s been with us five years to develop, it’s not like he’s just joined us.  He’s been with us all that time.  Ollie was Weston Super Mare five years ago and been at the club this season so I’m not buying the ‘he was at Biggleswade Town’ argument plus Davis was only 17/18 then, not like Jamie Vardy who was at Fleetwood Town when he was 23 years old re late bloomer thing.

He must have spent a good 18-24 months of those 5 years injured or recovering from injury I’d wager.

I’ve maintained from day one that there’s a really good player in there somewhere and I fear that if we let him go he’ll go on to exceed elsewhere, though my faith in him has been tested greatly......then he puts in a 20 minute cameo like yesterday and along with Trez changed the game entirely.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I take the point, but Utd are a bad example as any of their fans will tell you none of those are DMs and it's a position they have been and still are desperate for. And our defence has been better than theirs this season.

They play 4-2-3-1 the same as us.....since lockdown OGS has played Pogba and Matic as the double pivot......but injuries obviously change things.

Someone has to play DCM to create discipline and organisation in a team, its not an option, its part of the balance.....I take your point though, not every team has dedicated/specialist DCM's......I keep pushing for us to get a top class one.

Our Defence as been fine, just a few silly errors, like yesterday.....But  a Good DCM is not just defensive, they turn defence in to attack and create a midfield discipline to manage games out....They are the insurance the attackers need to stop looking over their shoulder, they also create a situation where tracking back is not quite as essential, allowing offensive players to concentrate on their main job.....they are essentially the Engine room, the good ones anyway.

I make no apologies.....they are my favourite players, they make good teams tick......some of the greats like Dave McKay, Duncan Edwards( probably a wing half ), Claude Makalele, Michael Essien, Yaya Toure, Busquets and many more......there are versions too, some have just midfileder tendencies, who can attack too.

 

[gwi1890]

47 minutes ago, TRO said:

I want him to stay too.....but I can see the points Nick makes too....and agree with them.

What did Jack say? "strongest player in the club"......surely he could be another Chris Woods or am I being ambitious.

I don’t think you are, but Davis has much better ball control and pace

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

He must have spent a good 18-24 months of those 5 years injured or recovering from injury I’d wager.

I’ve maintained from day one that there’s a really good player in there somewhere and I fear that if we let him go he’ll go on to exceed elsewhere, though my faith in him has been tested greatly......then he puts in a 20 minute cameo like yesterday and along with Trez changed the game entirely.

Still leaves 3 to 3.5 years to show us but cameos like yesterday are so rare with him.  Let’s assume that’s he’s somewhere in between what you think and I think.  If we are to stay at our level or hopefully step up a level then he’s not going to be good enough is he.  For the good of his career he needs regular first team football and even the most optimistic must know he’s not going to get that here.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, gwi1890 said:

I don’t think you are, but Davis has much better ball control and pace

But Woods has 82 goals in 202 appearances in the last five years. 

[abdulaziz1]

The only game I remember he didn’t put an impact at was Wolves at home. Other than that he was good whenever he played. It’s just that his effort yesterday got an assist. 

[Mjvilla]

54 minutes ago, TRO said:

I want him to stay too.....but I can see the points Nick makes too....and agree with them.

What did Jack say? "strongest player in the club"......surely he could be another Chris Woods or am I being ambitious.

I don't think Keinan has ever or will ever play in goal.

[AntrimBlack]

We have a number of players, El Ghazi, Treseguet, Davis, who do not have the kevel of consistency and performance that we will need to kick on.

We need upgrades on all three.