Keinan Davis

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Absolutely phenomenal player for his tender age.....I would love him at Villa.....and I do like relatively tall strikers.

Just couldn’t understand his comment.  Rarely do you ever see a player that does everything possible in their position and he does it at the highest level and he’s only 20 years old.  Literally no weakness in his game at moment is incredible, a freak of a player and a joy to watch.

Worst part of his comment is that all the best things he and people rave about Davis, is what Haaland does every game at the highest level never mind all the other phenomenal attributes that Haaland has that Davis doesn’t have.

Edited April 5, 2021 by nick76

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

He would make a superb defensive midfield player in my opinion

Sorry but don’t agree with that.

[Mic09]

Granted, I only had the game on in the background and didn't pay that much attention. 

But has Davies been that good to change the perception of majority on here who (myself included) considered him to be a very poor footballer?

Especially considering he played 20mins against Fulham?

Edited April 5, 2021 by Mic09

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Can you explain this 'one winger' approach to me please? It's a concept I've not heard of before. I've seen you mention it a few times now and Morley played the role. Morley was before my time, unfortunately. Although I have had the privilege of meeting him a large number of times.

Do you have a winger who plays on one side? Or both sides? Or is it more like a '10' who drifts around that whole area behind the front 2?

I presume this winger comes from the '3' in that formation and you play with 2 up top? 

I think we need to explore a way of getting 2 up top whilst Grealish is out.

Yes.

The one winger has licence to switch flanks, you can only cross a ball at one time.....but the school of thought is that wingers do drift in an out of the game and can be semi-idle for long minutes.....as an example...Sir Alf Ramsey, never had any when we won the World cup....its seeking efficiency and industry.....you then keep you 3 midfielders, whilst also keeping your 2 strikers.....but a lot is dictated to, by the attributes of the players, in my opinion we have too many too samey, not enough variation to complete the whole team balance.....I am hoping that will be addressed in the forth coming window, but I do tend to think we are attracted to more offensive semi- lightweights, than robust, dominating Generals... like Gareth Barry or Mortimer, and too many of either is no good.....its getting the balance right, is key for me

In those halcyon days we played 4-3-3.....with Morley ( winger) Shaw ( inside forward 8 or 10) withe ( centre forward)......and then 3 in midfielder in Bremner, Cowans and Mortimer.....but all those players could do so many other things other than their main function and they were all different, had different qualities....Cowans could defend, by winning the ball in his unique style, he could scheme and he could drop a ball on a sixpence like Hoddle. or 10.....but remember, Shaw scored as many goals as Withe, they played as partners.....an 8 or 10 has to score goals.

I agree on your last line.

I think Dean thinks, he can't afford to lose a midfielder as we are not strong enough there, so he loses a striker to compensate......Jack has so many attributes/Qualities the team needs, so when he is out, we lose more than one player....I think we can run with one winger.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

But we don't have those.

I know, Then thats the next Task.

I am not criticising what we have, we all know that.....I am merely saying what we need to do to move forward.

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I know, Then thats the next Task.

I am not criticising what we have, we all know that.....I am merely saying what we need to do to move forward.

Smith is a 4-3-3 man, that will never change.

The 2 striker system is a pipe dream although i can understand the people calling for it, particularly when Jack is out. Just isn't a realistic thing.

[Follyfoot]

16 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Sorry but don’t agree with that.

No problem,  he can tackle, he can pass and is also quick. Maybe the enforcer we are looking  for? Sounds nuts but can just see it for some reason 

[TRO]

7 hours ago, nick76 said:

Just couldn’t understand his comment.  Rarely do you ever see a player that does everything possible in their position and he does it at the highest level and he’s only 20 years old.  Literally no weakness in his game at moment is incredible, a freak of a player and a joy to watch.

Worst part of his comment is that all the best things he and people rave about Davis, is what Haaland does every game at the highest level never mind all the other phenomenal attributes that Haaland has that Davis doesn’t have.

I couldn't agree with you more Nick....but whilst you mention Davis, I was so pleased with his contribution, when he came on.....just simply brushing aside the defender for his run down the flank, so basic, but that kind of play just eludes us. He looked up too, before looping the ball towards the far post, it was game changing, but well executed.

I know your overall view on him, so I am not trying to change that, because he does need to score more, no doubt about that.....but personally, I was so pleased for the lad.

I do see stuff, in him very few of our players have....its one of my frustrations with the Squad, even Wesley, does not use his strength, in the same way....but hey ho.

Edited April 5, 2021 by TRO

[ender4]

53 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Starting to question whether you even understand football with some of your comments, it’s just bizarre month after month even on non-Villa matters like this.

The ignore button works brilliantly against trolling.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Granted, I only had the game on in the background and didn't pay that much attention. 

But has Davies been that good to change the perception of majority on here who (myself included) considered him to be a very poor footballer?

Especially considering he played 20mins against Fulham?

He is a poor goal scorer, not necessarily a poor footballer.....there are elements about his play, very valuable, when he is in form....but other elements that are poor/modest.

He can illustrate good feet, for a big man, and can win possession by his power and strength, plus those feet.

Those few moments, will not change hard held views, but they will make us think a bit more.

While Jack is out, I think Dean needs to think of ways to help Ollie and I think Keinan, could do just that ( baring Injury)

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

He would make a superb defensive midfield player in my opinion

you could say that about Hause or Konsa too......I get your thinking and its close to mine, but you also need fluidity, vision and quick movement in that role, to turn defence in to attack.

It would be my priority signing this summer.

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Smith is a 4-3-3 man, that will never change.

The 2 striker system is a pipe dream although i can understand the people calling for it, particularly when Jack is out. Just isn't a realistic thing.

I respectfully disagree.....we are 4-2-3-1 now.

Dean will look at what works and what don't....I don't think managers can afford to have a too rigid view......They will lean towards what has worked for them in the past, but they have to temper that, with what tools they have to work with.

Its arguable that you have to alter your team as the opposition varies from game to game.....unless your team is world class and cope with any eventuality.

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

No problem,  he can tackle, he can pass and is also quick. Maybe the enforcer we are looking  for? Sounds nuts but can just see it for some reason 

The 64 million dollar question is.......are WE looking for an enforcer.

I am, maybe you are, but is Dean?......I am not convinced, he is.

Edited April 5, 2021 by TRO

[nick76]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

I couldn't agree with you more Nick....but whilst you mention Davis, I was so pleased with his contribution, when he came on.....just simply brushing aside the defender for his run down the flank, so basic, but that kind of play just alludes us. He looked up too, before looping the ball towards the far post, it was game changing, but well executed.

I know your overall view on him, so I am not trying to change that, because he does need to score more, no doubt about that.....but personally, I was so pleased for the lad.

I do see stuff, in him very few of our players have....its one of my frustrations with the Squad, even Wesley, does not use his strength, in the same way....but hey ho.

I completely agree and I praised him on this forum in several threads yesterday.  My point since then is that’s not the usual Davis we see is it?  Same with Trez yesterday, same with the El Ghazi in January when he scored those five goals.  Some players seem to do it once in ten, fifteen, twenty games but the next game they are poor.  

i get the whole lack of minutes argument but he’s obviously not doing enough in training to warrant a start.  If he did that in training he’d be starting wouldn’t he.  The coaches aren’t obviously seeing that and that is shown more in this past two months when even poorer players like Trez and El Ghazi are getting material game time but he isn’t.

He did really well yesterday and I was delighted no doubt! That player I will love, the usual Davis can leave and enjoy Championship football next season in my opinion.

[Follyfoot]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

The 64 million dollar question is.......are WE looking for an enforcer.

I am, maybe you are, but is Dean?......I am not convinced, he is.

Most definitely, I think it would improve us dramatically, we do have a bit of a soft underbelly when things aren’t going our way. Someone who can lead by example and get down and dirty to rally the troops type player

 

[M_Afro]

34 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Smith is a 4-3-3 man, that will never change.

The 2 striker system is a pipe dream although i can understand the people calling for it, particularly when Jack is out. Just isn't a realistic thing.

But we can play 4-3-3 in a different way. Without Jack we totally lack the ability to pass through the thirds or any player with the capability to carry the ball through the thirds. Therefore we have to adjust the way we play or continue to have limited success until Jack returns. 
Why not play a narrow 3 with Davis in the middle flanked by Ollie on the left and Bert/Trez on the right. You can then play direct to Davis who can either hold the ball up or flick it on to Ollie/Bert/Trez. This allows the full backs and midfield to get in the final third more easily and helps to build pressure. Non of us want to see this as our main long term game plan but if it brings us short term success, as it did yesterday, until we get jack back and better wide/midfield players in the squad, then why not?

Overall Dean has done a very good job but he should not be free of criticism and he should be more open to change in my opinion. Each season we have had long spells of poor results and performances where he has been totally resistant to change. In the first season he was saved by Jack returning. In the second season he was saved by the C-19 break. Who knows whether or not we could have done even better if he had changed things earlier? Anyway, I am very happy with the end result yesterday and with our season as a whole. I also want Smith to be in charge next season but I want him to learn from his mistakes, act quicker and get better. Nothing wrong with that!

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I completely agree and I praised him on this forum in several threads yesterday.  My point since then is that’s not the usual Davis we see is it?  Same with Trez yesterday, same with the El Ghazi in January when he scored those five goals.  Some players seem to do it once in ten, fifteen, twenty games but the next game they are poor.  

i get the whole lack of minutes argument but he’s obviously not doing enough in training to warrant a start.  If he did that in training he’d be starting wouldn’t he.  The coaches aren’t obviously seeing that and that is shown more in this past two months when even poorer players like Trez and El Ghazi are getting material game time but he isn’t.

He did really well yesterday and I was delighted no doubt! That player I will love, the usual Davis can leave and enjoy Championship football next season in my opinion.

I know you did....shows your balanced view.

Can't argue, with any of that..

[useless]

Davis always plays well for us, not sure why people are pretending that he doesn't, his only problem is his goalscoring, but if others are scoring when he's on the pitch and we improve overall as a team when he's on the pitch it doesn't really matter.

[Mjvilla]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yes.

The one winger has licence to switch flanks, you can only cross a ball at one time.....but the school of thought is that wingers do drift in an out of the game and can be semi-idle for long minutes.....as an example...Sir Alf Ramsey, never had any when we won the World cup....its seeking efficiency and industry.....you then keep you 3 midfielders, whilst also keeping your 2 strikers.....but a lot is dictated to, by the attributes of the players, in my opinion we have too many too samey, not enough variation to complete the whole team balance.....I am hoping that will be addressed in the forth coming window, but I do tend to think we are attracted to more offensive semi- lightweights, than robust, dominating Generals... like Gareth Barry or Mortimer, and too many of either is no good.....its getting the balance right, is key for me

In those halcyon days we played 4-3-3.....with Morley ( winger) Shaw ( inside forward) withe ( centre forward)......and then 3 in midfielders in Bremner, Cowans and Mortimer.....but all those players could do so many other things other than their main function and they were all different, had different qualities....Cowans could defend, by winning the ball in his unique style, he could scheme and he could drop a ball on a sixpence like Hoddle.

 

We'd be a long way from being able to do anything of that nature with the current squad I'd my understanding is correct. 

You can only cross one ball at a time is very true, but the opposite winger has a job to do when the ball is on the other side. The back post. You are a huge advocate of back post prudency so surely missing something here?

Also, in the times where the high press is becoming more and more prevalent (something I don't think we do well enough), having 1 winger just gives the keeper/centre backs of the opposition an easy out ball. The opposite side to the one in which the winger is.

Does a central midfielder come out to close the full back and leave holes in the midfield against our opponents who break so quick usually (Something we tend to do anyway) Does our full back push forward to stop the attack high up thus leaving space in behind? Is one of the 2 strikers (who should both be in the box) supposed to hold off attacking and defend the potential counter leaving us in our original position (and current problematic position) of having one striker and 2 wingers so problem isn't solved? 

I don't know, there's obviously a number of flaws with every formation / style of play. Otherwise every team would play 1 way and 1 way only. Because we are still such a squad in development, it limits what we can do. For sure, in my eyes. 

Another huge summer upcoming, will be fascinating to see what we do. I hope we all get a little bit of what we want. 

 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

But we can play 4-3-3 in a different way. Without Jack we totally lack the ability to pass through the thirds or any player with the capability to carry the ball through the thirds. Therefore we have to adjust the way we play or continue to have limited success until Jack returns. 
Why not play a narrow 3 with Davis in the middle flanked by Ollie on the left and Bert/Trez on the right. You can then play direct to Davis who can either hold the ball up or flick it on to Ollie/Bert/Trez. This allows the full backs and midfield to get in the final third more easily and helps to build pressure. Non of us want to see this as our main long term game plan but if it brings us short term success, as it did yesterday, until we get jack back and better wide/midfield players in the squad, then why not?

Overall Dean has done a very good job but he should not be free of criticism and he should be more open to change in my opinion. Each season we have had long spells of poor results and performances where he has been totally resistant to change. In the first season he was saved by Jack returning. In the second season he was saved by the C-19 break. Who knows whether or not we could have done even better if he had changed things earlier? Anyway, I am very happy with the end result yesterday and with our season as a whole. I also want Smith to be in charge next season but I want him to learn from his mistakes, act quicker and get better. Nothing wrong with that!

I am not trying to overly defend Dean here...but I think when he gets a squad with broader attributes per player, he will be come more tactically astute.

I think he is short of the quality in a number of players, particularly midfield to change things to affect a game.

Yesterday, He brought on Energy/Urgency and a will to shine......it wasn't so much tactical, but more character and industry.....it lit up Ollie too......2 or 3 flat players can send the team flat.....that energy, lifted a few more of us.

Edited April 5, 2021 by TRO