Keinan Davis

[villalad21]

9 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

That's a very black and white way of looking at it.

If you're a stat merchant El Ghazi was decent last season.

They've have obviously seen a lot of talent to work with on the training ground and ability to work with and that's why they have given him a new contract. Jack Grealish has echoed this. If you are getting praise from Jack it means you are doing something right.

He was poor yesterday although i thought he held up the ball quite well, but i can't excuse him missing a basically open goal.

[TrentVilla]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

That's a very black and white way of looking at it.

If you're a stat merchant El Ghazi was decent last season.

They've have obviously seen a lot of talent to work with on the training ground and ability to work with and that's why they have given him a new contract. Jack Grealish has echoed this. If you are getting praise from Jack it means you are doing something right.

He was poor yesterday although i thought he held up the ball quite well, but i can't excuse him missing a basically open goal.

Generally I’m not one for stats, many of them are subjective at best and misleading at worst, for instance assists and chances created are poor stats to asses a player by in my opinion.

The one stat that is fairly reliable is goals scored for forwards, sure it doesn’t tell you everything about them and their all round game but it tells you how good they are at their primary job.

The undeniable undebatable truth is Davis doesn’t score goals. 5 goals in 70 games (not completely up to date) is simply a woeful record.

I posted the stats because I find the debate around him frankly bizarre. He doesn’t score goals, he shows no sign of improving in this aspect of his game so there shouldn’t really be any debate about it.

The only debate to be had is if the remainder of his game and contribution is sufficient to mitigate the fact he won’t score. Jury is out on that one but personally, although I like some of his attributes right now it’s no.

I’ve not seen comments from Jack but they are utterly meaningless really, he is hardly likely to be anything other than positive about a team mate and possibly a mate.

I think Davis is very very fortunate to get a new deal and is a beneficiary of the fact we could only afford to bring in so many people this summer and other positions were prioritised.

Unless he improved dramatically he isn’t going to be a Premier League forward for long in my view but I hope to be wrong.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 hours ago, maqroll said:

Amazing what can win you a 4 year contract extension. 

Surely the extension protects us as much as rewarding him? What’s the point of releasing him on a free when if we ever sell him we could potential get a million for him. In the meantime he is happy to be a third choice striker (when Wesley returns). 
 

Whilst I’m not a fan I haven’t got a problem with the club giving him a new contract. He can still contribute in a long season. 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Surely the extension protects us as much as rewarding him? What’s the point of releasing him on a free when if we ever sell him we could potential get a million for him. In the meantime he is happy to be a third choice striker (when Wesley returns). 
 

Whilst I’m not a fan I haven’t got a problem with the club giving him a new contract. He can still contribute in a long season. 

I agree, it was a sensible move until we have better.

[DCJonah]

We can't just have watkins and Davis as our main striking options. We need another forward. 

[TRO]

9 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Problem you have on this forum and no doubt all across social media is the difference in players Cutting it or be able to make it at the clubs level and the fact that people like players no matter there ability.

Unfortunately once a player is liked, they could be absolutely horrendous and people just form a shield around them like they are invincible to Criticism or are just excused from being moved on.

We have an awful lot of players that fall into this category and the club and people in general are going to have to decide what's more important, keeping players around because they are liked or getting shut as soon as they are no longer worthy.

The Fringe team lit up how easy it would be for us to stumble in real trouble and tonight's players were disgusting to watch, they should hand there heads in shame. It's going to take two year or more to sort that mess out, because you cant replace a whole team in one window, especially when your priority is the first team.

Many of those players as soon as we could, I'd get shut of and let the Youth start trickling in there place  let's face it if were at those kind of displays now with our second team then what do we have to lose, just let the Youths have there day now 

It's a god damn mess beyond the first team. 

good points Dave.....The problem is the youth are not physically developed to cope with the rigours of this league, yet......JJ is being eased in and developed.

Look at Jack now compared to when he was 19/20.....He has developed that physical armour that is needed to protect his talent.....Watch Salah and Mane how  smallish guys uses there body to out muscle opponents, never mind there undoubted skill.

This is something our academy guys have to develop in time.

you are right we have to incrementally improve, and as we keep signing better first team players a cascade effect happens and the second team automatically get better.....but we have to sign the right characters.....Cash,Martinez,Watkins, look like those characters, so the club is well aware.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Surely the extension protects us as much as rewarding him? What’s the point of releasing him on a free when if we ever sell him we could potential get a million for him. In the meantime he is happy to be a third choice striker (when Wesley returns). 
 

Whilst I’m not a fan I haven’t got a problem with the club giving him a new contract. He can still contribute in a long season. 

I think coming in to a good side and holding the ball up for 30 minutes is much different from playing in a second string team who are full of melancholy of losing their places and not creating anything.

I do accept, that he has to score and maybe when Wes is fit , he can go on loan......but I am not as worried about him coming in to the first team ( in a cameo role)as I am of him playing for the seconds.

[TRO]

Just now, TRO said:

I think coming in to a good side and holding the ball up for 30 minutes is much different from playing in a second string team who are full of melancholy of losing their places and not creating anything.

I do accept, that he has to score and maybe when Wes is fit , he can go on loan......but I am not as worried about him coming in to the first team ( in a cameo role)as I am of him playing for the seconds.

but he has to score goals, if he expects a future with us.

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

That's a very black and white way of looking at it.

If you're a stat merchant El Ghazi was decent last season.

They've have obviously seen a lot of talent to work with on the training ground and ability to work with and that's why they have given him a new contract. Jack Grealish has echoed this. If you are getting praise from Jack it means you are doing something right.

He was poor yesterday although i thought he held up the ball quite well, but i can't excuse him missing a basically open goal.

I like the kid and I really want him to make it.......but you can't keep doing that.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

Generally I’m not one for stats, many of them are subjective at best and misleading at worst, for instance assists and chances created are poor stats to asses a player by in my opinion.

The one stat that is fairly reliable is goals scored for forwards, sure it doesn’t tell you everything about them and their all round game but it tells you how good they are at their primary job.

The undeniable undebatable truth is Davis doesn’t score goals. 5 goals in 70 games (not completely up to date) is simply a woeful record.

I posted the stats because I find the debate around him frankly bizarre. He doesn’t score goals, he shows no sign of improving in this aspect of his game so there shouldn’t really be any debate about it.

The only debate to be had is if the remainder of his game and contribution is sufficient to mitigate the fact he won’t score. Jury is out on that one but personally, although I like some of his attributes right now it’s no.

I’ve not seen comments from Jack but they are utterly meaningless really, he is hardly likely to be anything other than positive about a team mate and possibly a mate.

I think Davis is very very fortunate to get a new deal and is a beneficiary of the fact we could only afford to bring in so many people this summer and other positions were prioritised.

Unless he improved dramatically he isn’t going to be a Premier League forward for long in my view but I hope to be wrong.

 

I think most of us would endorse that.....you have covered the points well.

I don't find the debate bizarre, because as your next line explains specifically why the debate exists.

I must be like many, I want the kid to make it, mainly so as some of his better attributes are not wasted.....he is 22 and I guess some of us think he may turn the corner, I suspect the club might think that too.

The longer he goes on in a vein that produces no goals, the harder it is to defend him......we cannot ignore that fact indefinately, granted.

Last night did make me think again, I know one game is not a benchmark, but in view of his more effervescent start to the season, by way of his general play and his freedom from Injuries, I wasn't really expecting that appraisal.

I also accept the point, to score goals regularly a player has to be doing more than one thing right.......You only have to look at Vardy to see a plethora of attributes that lead to his make -up.

In conclusion.......I don't think the debate is bizarre, but I do think its wearing thin.

 

[PieFacE]

He's okay as a backup striker. Would rather he be a backup to the backup though. Never going to score goals at Premier League level. 

Seems better as an impact sub rather than a starter in any shape or form really. I like him, seems a decent bloke who's worked hard to get to where he is. But that only gets you so far. He's not a natural striker at all. 

[Davkaus]

6 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

He's okay as a backup striker. Would rather he be a backup to the backup though. Never going to score goals at Premier League level. 

Seems better as an impact sub rather than a starter in any shape or form really. I like him, seems a decent bloke who's worked hard to get to where he is. But that only gets you so far. He's not a natural striker at all. 

I think he's got a place coming on if we're holding on to a win/draw and need to hold the ball up and run the clock down. It's a pretty niche role though.

Going in to the season with him as our only alternative if Watkins misses games is pretty shocking, tbh. I'd have held on to Samatta until Wesley is back. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

I think he's got a place coming on if we're holding on to a win/draw and need to hold the ball up and run the clock down. It's a pretty niche role though.

Going in to the season with him as our only alternative if Watkins misses games is pretty shocking, tbh. I'd have held on to Samatta until Wesley is back. 

judging by last nights wake up call.....perhaps the sooner we move on these none firing players the better.....perhaps Samatta was an opportunity too good to pass up.....its also disappointing how there is such little residual value in these players we find as surplus.....also shows other clubs agree with us in our appraisal of them.

[CottenM]

The injury to Wesley is an issue, because we have a striker on starters wages we'll still be paying, and if we buy another striker, when he does come back suddenly we're overloaded in that position.
Davis would in theory be ok as a third choice in my opinion, he's shown some ability, needs to improve if we're going to be pushing on as a club though

[Mister_a]

So much talk over a striker who doesn't strike.

Needs to go on loan (and I think that was what the new deal was for, mitigating him going on a free at the end of any loan).

Either that, or he needs to be turned into a CM or something, because if he's up front, we aren't scoring.

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, CottenM said:

The injury to Wesley is an issue, because we have a striker on starters wages we'll still be paying, and if we buy another striker, when he does come back suddenly we're overloaded in that position.
Davis would in theory be ok as a third choice in my opinion, he's shown some ability, needs to improve if we're going to be pushing on as a club though

I think that is how the club is thinking.....even if we don't.

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, Mister_a said:

So much talk over a striker who doesn't strike.

Needs to go on loan (and I think that was what the new deal was for, mitigating him going on a free at the end of any loan).

Either that, or he needs to be turned into a CM or something, because if he's up front, we aren't scoring.

Go out on loan? We haven’t enough forwards for him to go on loan.

[Mister_a]

1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

Go out on loan? We haven’t enough forwards for him to go on loan.

I'd like another striker yes

[gwi1890]

Let bare in mind that We scored 3 goals against Fulham without a CF scoring 

[tinker]

10 minutes ago, Mister_a said:

So much talk over a striker who doesn't strike.

Needs to go on loan (and I think that was what the new deal was for, mitigating him going on a free at the end of any loan).

Either that, or he needs to be turned into a CM or something, because if he's up front, we aren't scoring.

This , I would much rather see him in midfield than Lansbury. We do however need another striker as Davies is just not good enough if  Ollie is out. We should loan a striker in, Puki from Norwich has been mentioned, anyone striker who has a proven ability to score goal would be welcome .