Vive_La_Villa Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Whenever I’ve seen Davis come on this season he’s looked good. I get his goal scoring record was poor in the championship but I think with the way we play our front man isn’t just about goals. I would like to see him get more minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Whenever I’ve seen Davis come on this season he’s looked good. I get his goal scoring record was poor in the championship but I think with the way we play our front man isn’t just about goals. I would like to see him get more minutes. Played under Bruce though. Will get into more scoring opportunities in this team. People complaining about him missing chances but at least he is getting into scoring positions. Edited October 28, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, villalad21 said: I've brought this up a lot, but Harry Kane didn't look like a great goalscorer during his loan spells. He really didn't hit off until the age of 22-23. Players often develop at a different pace. Harry Kane had 5 goals in 18 apps at Orient aged 18, and he had 7 goals in 22 apps at Millwall aged 19. He had 8 goals in 14 apps for England U-21. That's really not a bad return for a young player. What people didn't see was him becoming one of the best players in the world, which is where all the "late bloomer" stuff comes from. But the bar we're setting for Keinan is much lower - is he good enough to play for a Premier League team? I think we're some way off knowing the answer to that one, and it would be a big dice roll for DS to bring him in for Wesley, who has at least shown that on a good day (Everton game) he can be unplayable. If I were DS I would be trying to work out how to get more of those Everton performances out of Wesley, rather than binning him. I do agree that Keinan needs to be coming on a bit earlier (around 60 mins) so he can properly influence a game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) Another way of saying it is that Kane had 12 goals in 45 matches over 24 months. Not exactly superb either. The thing is that players might develop in different paxes, bit they need first team football. Which is why Davis needs alot more pitch time. So either bench Wesley or send him out on loan. Edited October 28, 2019 by KenjiOgiwara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: But the bar we're setting for Keinan is much lower - is he good enough to play for a Premier League team? I think we're some way off knowing the answer to that one, and it would be a big dice roll for DS to bring him in for Wesley, who has at least shown that on a good day (Everton game) he can be unplayable. If I were DS I would be trying to work out how to get more of those Everton performances out of Wesley, rather than binning him. According to Smith, if you come on and play better than the man who has the shirt then you get in next game. Keinan played better than Wesley, so surely deserves a chance the next league game?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 48 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Another way of saying it is that Kane had 12 goals in 45 matches over 24 months. Not exactly superb either. The thing is that players might develop in different paxes, bit they need first team football. Which is why Davis needs alot more pitch time. So either bench Wesley or send him out on loan. It's a goal every 3.75 games. Keinan has a league goal every 20 games (and I'm rounding down to the nearest 10 to be kind to him). It's a bit of a reach to bring Kane's early career into this debate. Can someone find a striker who had a record like Keinan's and later bloomed into a proper PL striker? Genuinely interested. 22 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: According to Smith, if you come on and play better than the man who has the shirt then you get in next game. Keinan played better than Wesley, so surely deserves a chance the next league game?! This League Cup game has arrived at the perfect time for Smith, as it means he can start Davis on Wednesday and make a decision based on that. But I slightly challenge this idea that just because Keinan offers a bit more crowdpleasing huff and puff, and better "body language", that he has really made the case to start ahead of Wesley, our top scorer. Had he finished that chance against City, or scored the winner against Brighton, the case would be stronger. Anyway, I'll enjoy digging up a few of these posts next summer when we sell Keinan to Crewe for £2m. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted October 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 29, 2019 I'm not convinced he's better than Wes from his performances so far. He's come on late, against a tired defence and usually when the game is gone. On the occasions we needed a late goal to win it with Keinan on the pitch, he hasn't produced anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 8 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Whenever I’ve seen Davis come on this season he’s looked good. I get his goal scoring record was poor in the championship but I think with the way we play our front man isn’t just about goals. I would like to see him get more minutes. He does chase the ball around alot which is great and alot like Tammy did for us, can we not get that one striker who does it all though. Either Davis who doesnt score but tacks his man chases the ball down, Wesley who scores but doesnt use his strength and doesnt chase much or Kodjia who is lazy and runs only when the ball comes to him and you never know what your getting. If we could take the best bits from all three we'd have an excellent striker, we need a cloning center in order to have some luck and success with a striker me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Dave-R said: He does chase the ball around alot which is great and alot like Tammy did for us, can we not get that one striker who does it all though. Either Davis who doesnt score but tacks his man chases the ball down, Wesley who scores but doesnt use his strength and doesnt chase much or Kodjia who is lazy and runs only when the ball comes to him and you never know what your getting. If we could take the best bits from all three we'd have an excellent striker, we need a cloning center in order to have some luck and success with a striker me thinks. Tammy was that striker. He was perfect for us. I wonder if we would have signed him had it not been for the embargo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Pretty sure Gabby barely scored a goal in his loan spell. Surely people realise there's many strikers in world football who make good careers for themselves not scoring many goals at all over a season? If you look at premier league last season there were only 7-8 players who scored more than 15 goals so there's plenty of strikers out there who struggle to reach even double figures from starting many games. I doubt Davis will ever get in that range but what if we start him for a few games and he links up better with McGinn and Grealish better than Wes has done so far, surely that benefits us better in the long run? I think he'll get a start v Wolves and if he does well could well stay in for the Liverpool game. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Starting today apparently. As is Hourihane. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 21 hours ago, VillaChris said: Pretty sure Gabby barely scored a goal in his loan spell. Surely people realise there's many strikers in world football who make good careers for themselves not scoring many goals at all over a season? If you look at premier league last season there were only 7-8 players who scored more than 15 goals so there's plenty of strikers out there who struggle to reach even double figures from starting many games. I doubt Davis will ever get in that range but what if we start him for a few games and he links up better with McGinn and Grealish better than Wes has done so far, surely that benefits us better in the long run? I think he'll get a start v Wolves and if he does well could well stay in for the Liverpool game. I think only looking at the goal stat alone when judging a striker is silly. If a striker scored 4 goals in his first game and then played 9 bad ones contributing very little, has he done well then? "Wow, 4 goals in 10, decent return!" Wesley have done well in 3 games, but had 7 bad games, in my opinion. That's not good enough as a starter. If you cant' score you have to at least contribute in other ways. Win your aerial battles, work hard to win the second balls. With Wesley i feel if he's not scoring he's contributing very. very little to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 52 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I think only looking at the goal stat alone when judging a striker is silly. If a striker scored 4 goals in his first game and then played 9 bad ones contributing very little, has he done well then? "Wow, 4 goals in 10, decent return!" Wesley have done well in 3 games, but had 7 bad games, in my opinion. That's not good enough as a starter. If you cant' score you have to at least contribute in other ways. Win your aerial battles, work hard to win the second balls. With Wesley i feel if he's not scoring he's contributing very. very little to the team. Reductio ad absurdum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I like Davis has a pert to play. But Wesley deserves to keep his place, and if we don't want to throw our 20 million plus investment in him away then we need to play him. Davis will get his chance, it's up to him to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Ignoring everything else it's funny to read certain posters defending Wesley by his age and need of a continued run in the side, yet when it comes to Davis it doesn't apply. A young lad who's been at the club since his teens, who has served with England at youth levels. You would think people would see giving him a chance to be something really positive, but nope. Ultimately if you can't give up and coming young talented players the chance to impress when your foreign expensive players fail to deliver, then when are you supposed to utilize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Ignoring everything else it's funny to read certain posters defending Wesley by his age and need of a continued run in the side, yet when it comes to Davis it doesn't apply. A young lad who's been at the club since his teens, who has served with England at youth levels. You would think people would see giving him a chance to be something really positive, but nope. Ultimately if you can't give up and coming young talented players the chance to impress when your foreign expensive players fail to deliver, then when are you supposed to utilize them. If Wesley doesn't improve then Davis should get a chance. But as we have given Wesley the chance, we should give him a proper chance. Especially as his Goals return, that which we judge strikers is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Philosopher said: If Wesley doesn't improve then Davis should get a chance. But as we have given Wesley the chance, we should give him a proper chance. Especially as his Goals return, that which we judge strikers is good. Except goal ratio isn't the only thing that you judge a striker by. If it was we would all be content with Wesley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Except goal ratio isn't the only thing that you judge a striker by. If it was we would all be content with Wesley. It is the MAIN thing. And he has done very well at the MAIN thing by which we judge strikers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Philosopher said: It is the MAIN thing. And he has done very well at the MAIN thing by which we judge strikers If it was Lukaku would still be at Man Utd. Man Utd didn't want him because a decent goalscorer is all he is. He is a crap "footballer" Rashford and Martial scores less goals than him but still they bring much more to the team. Edited October 30, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hope he does start, want to see him do well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts