What do we do about it?

[PussEKatt]

supporters donate 50p each.Put all the money together and buy as many sheets as possable.Sew them together and write slogan eg "Shafted by the board" and display at upper and lower Holte end at half time and again at full time.If possable at away games too.

No use writing Lerner out as he wants out as much as we do.

[romavillan]

16 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

Yet he didn't get a buyer two years ago. That was despite him recruiting M&A guys from BAML to find a buyer. There were some rumours of interested buyers, and the Financial Times reported interest from the Ukraine (link below), but sanctions apparently put a stop to that, and none of the whispers transpired.

"One attempt to sell Aston Villa, meanwhile, was scuppered...."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c102c0b0-390a-11e5-8613-07d16aad2152.html#ixzz3z2Gt98tM

We don't truly know what his valuation of the club was at the time, but it couldn't have been that unrealistic if the interest was there.

It's said that he can't sell because of his asking price, but nobody knows what that is, or whether that's true. What we do know, and as talked about in the article above, is that out and out purchases of PL football clubs just aren't desirable any more for a number of reasons. The potential buyer market is small.

And now, with another global financial meltdown looming, I can't see the club being sold anytime soon. 

The fact there was only realtively serious intent fro one bidder would suggest to me the asking price was too high. we *should* be a good punt for success really the north west has big clubs, london and the north east too. With the population in the west midlands conurbation being comparable to the north west it is a relative football vacuum. We have the famous old name too, good facilities etc. 2 years ago had Lerner been willing to cut his price I would imagine he'd have had an easier time finding a buyer. Now he can not seriously be asking anywhere near that sort of money as once we are in the championship and our best players scarper, we shall be a long way away from the premier league pots of gold.

[limpid]

58 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

supporters donate 50p each.Put all the money together and buy as many sheets as possable.Sew them together and write slogan eg "Shafted by the board" and display at upper and lower Holte end at half time and again at full time.If possable at away games too.

No use writing Lerner out as he wants out as much as we do.

Are you volunteering to organise this?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

White flag yes please.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

7 hours ago, romavillan said:

The fact there was only realtively serious intent fro one bidder would suggest to me the asking price was too high. we *should* be a good punt for success really the north west has big clubs, london and the north east too. With the population in the west midlands conurbation being comparable to the north west it is a relative football vacuum. We have the famous old name too, good facilities etc. 2 years ago had Lerner been willing to cut his price I would imagine he'd have had an easier time finding a buyer. Now he can not seriously be asking anywhere near that sort of money as once we are in the championship and our best players scarper, we shall be a long way away from the premier league pots of gold.

It is not a fact that there was only one serious bidder. Nobody knows how much solid interest we had. The article mentions one party, but that doesn't necessarily mean that was the extent of it. It's clear selling a football club is difficult - the article explains that - but to the fans he should have just cut his asking price. Nobody knows what that ever was and whether it was ever lowered. It's all guesswork, conjecture and rumour based on nothing. 

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[romavillan]

Just now, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

There is no fact that there was only one serious bidder. Nobody knows how much solid interest we had. The article mentions one party, but that doesn't necessarily mean that was the extent of it. It's clear selling a football club is difficult - the article explains that - but to the fans he should have just cut his asking price. Nobody knows what that ever was and whether it was ever lowered. It's all guesswork, conjecture and rumour based on nothing. 

 

To a degree yes, I agree, I have no way of knowing what his price was or how many serious bidders there were. What we undoubtedly know is that he hasn't sold up. 

From there we can deduce that no-one offered what he wanted surely? After that perhaps it's not completely mental to think that there is a problem with Randy's valuation and our need for him to **** off. He clearly wants more money back from his failed experiment than is good for us? Surely?

[useless]

The most we know about the bid, at least from last summer is what Howard Hodgson told about the bid he was involved with. There was a deal agreed with a Chinese consortium but it fell through because of the Chinese economic crash. I know some don't like him, but I don't think he'd lie about such a thing.

[romavillan]

this could be usefull for whoever might want to organise some sort of demo that requires cash...

https://www.crowdrise.com/

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

5 minutes ago, romavillan said:

To a degree yes, I agree, I have no way of knowing what his price was or how many serious bidders there were. What we undoubtedly know is that he hasn't sold up. 

From there we can deduce that no-one offered what he wanted surely? After that perhaps it's not completely mental to think that there is a problem with Randy's valuation and our need for him to **** off. He clearly wants more money back from his failed experiment than is good for us? Surely?

It's a fair conclusion, to an extent - in that if he lowers his valuation enough then it might get sold. Perhaps.

But that asking price might have to be ludicrously low and way underneath any reasonable value. There's an argument to say he should just give us up for what he paid, but he's not going to just give the club away, especially if it involves money coming from or to a family trust.

The people quoted in that article explain why it is so hard to sell a football club, it's not just specific to Aston Villa. Other clubs haven't been sold, and no PL club has been sold in full since Fulham, so it's clear that football clubs aren't the easily saleable items they used to be.

Then there's the broader economic environment - the sanctions mentioned in the FT article; the issues writhin Emerging Markets; the Chinese stock market crash and their wobbling economy; the fact that another global financial crisis is looming. In my mind it all adds up to the more reasonable conclusion that investors would simply prefer to put their money to better use. 

[sne]

We'll have the rest of the season (and sadly the foreseeable future) to express or displeasure against Lerner and the board.

But for something we can do without much preparation or money I agree that the white flag/towel/t-shirt or whatever is a very good option.

You see it from time to time in Spain and it's visually pretty effective, especially if enough people join in.

Edit: was harder than I thought to find a good video of it, the best I found is from a Colombian bullfighting arena...

 

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by sne

[Pilchard]

The white flag idea is perfect. It's on the same lines as the old "£" protest - it's simple, anyone can do it and importantly (especially after the negative press we've had today) it's not abusive. 

[Woodytom]

9 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

supporters donate 50p each.Put all the money together and buy as many sheets as possable.Sew them together and write slogan eg "Shafted by the board" and display at upper and lower Holte end at half time and again at full time.If possable at away games too.

No use writing Lerner out as he wants out as much as we do.

What's that gonna do apart from cost us all 50p and irritate anyone who has to stand under it?

[thunderball]

1 hour ago, Woodytom said:

What's that gonna do apart from cost us all 50p and irritate anyone who has to stand under it?

Get the message across on an unmissable bloody enormous white sheet so the board can see how pissed off we all are.

you won't miss much being under it.

Edited February 3, 2016 by thunderball

[Sam3773]

Invest 50p and you've officially invested more this year than the owner.

[terrytini]

Well, I wondered about the Reserves the other day, and I see someone has mentioned it here. So there's one thing, go to the Reserves but not the 1st TEam.

But what would the outcome be ? Unlikley you'd get a large number to do it.

White Flags and similar ? I really don't think he could care less.

What could happen that could actually MAKE him do something different ?

Well, very little, and in the end I could only think of two. The obvious one is buy him out.

So my proposal number One is that we (I'll do it if someone knows who to go to, I'm sure we have smarter people than me out there) make him an offer.  Has anyone done it yet ?  Has anyone looked at numbers ? Do we know for sure what price he might sell for?  Might Doug lend us a bit ? How about a couple of us link up with that Howard Hughes guy or whoever he is and see if we can get enough mini-Rich people, enough fans, enough sponsorship, maybe sell some stuff off (maybe sell off the whole team ?), wh oknows what? Have we tried it yet, if we have I missed it, so maybe others missed it too ?

See, I keep hearing it costs him money.  So if he's making a loss, presumably he absolutely can't wait to get shot ?  Yet where are the FOR Sale Boards ?  How come the negotiations are secret ?  What actually IS the asking price ?  As fans why don't we d owhatever mounting a bid is, and find all these things out ?  I mean, I don't know about you lot, but the mats don't seem that hard. 'X' amount TV money and gate income plus others, has to pay 'Y amount wages'.

Just coz he cant make that sum work, doesn't mean we can't!! And IF, IF it meant having a lower standard of player, of League, well I'd be ok with that.  Id rather own my own house in a crap area that be forever in hock to someone but live in a nicer area.

That's my suggestion.

Failing that, (or allied to it, see below) the only other way that has ever worked in history where little guys need to overthrow a power guy is, for want of a better description, civil disobedience (CD). Haven't really started thoughts on that yet, but I imagine the police would get a bit racked off if we all didn't go home after the games. maybe loitered in Aston Hall Park, or took ages getting out the Car Parks (should be easy), walk very very slowly out the ground so stewards have to work differently (if you pretend to have a limp they cant shove you out !)...place big orders for food then once its all in front of you just walk off, all congregate at the back of the North peacefully getting in the way of the Away Teams bus, theres a few for starters, but it needs numbers, so word has to spread much further than on here.

 

Also, the idea can be a CD allied with a buyout plan.  The CD should be done in such a way to bring the price (and willingness ) for a buyout down to where we can do it.

So I would suggest two new threads for starters.  The Buyout Ideas thread, and the CD ideas thread.  A week or two of 'blue sky thinking' (yug), of contacts ,suggestions, blueprints, who are possible sponsors, who has a few quid more than the average Jo, lets get enough together for 1 or 2 of us to go see the Club, or the Clubs reps on the market, and do a bid thingy. 

Well ?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

The white flag idea is perfect. It's on the same lines as the old "£" protest - it's simple, anyone can do it and importantly (especially after the negative press we've had today) it's not abusive. 

This.

I'm game, as long as I'm not the only **** doing it!

Perhaps the weekend is too soon?

[terrytini]

So, just had a quick google. 

Now I'm sure there are better ways but just to get the ball rolling........ 2014 we lost 4m on a 114 m turnover.  69m on wages, 73 m tv money.

 

Lets imagine that was now.  Lets say he wants 150m  ? OK, for the next 3 years he gets to keep 50m tv money each year.  That's him done.  Now ,we couldn't run at the loss that would bring about, so we totally rip the heart out the playing staff.  Sell the lot, effectively, and be prepared to drop like a stone.  So wages drop from 69m to, say, 20m.

Now OUR TV Income matches OUR wage bill, and HE has gone.  Then there is stuff like fan investment, naming rights, who knows.  In short a lot of what he would do if he could.  Well we wouldn't let someone ELSE do it, but we could, in order t oown the Club ? Yes ?

Not sure exactly how its done, but we can work on that. Feel free t opick constructive holes in the above, but ideally for each bit you think can't work, suggest something that does.  lets go !

[dont_do_it_doug.]

So, just had a quick google. 

Now I'm sure there are better ways but just to get the ball rolling........ 2014 we lost 4m on a 114 m turnover.  69m on wages, 73 m tv money.

 

Lets imagine that was now.  Lets say he wants 150m  ? OK, for the next 3 years he gets to keep 50m tv money each year.  That's him done.  Now ,we couldn't run at the loss that would bring about, so we totally rip the heart out the playing staff.  Sell the lot, effectively, and be prepared to drop like a stone.  So wages drop from 69m to, say, 20m.

Now OUR TV Income matches OUR wage bill, and HE has gone.  Then there is stuff like fan investment, naming rights, who knows.  In short a lot of what he would do if he could.  Well we wouldn't let someone ELSE do it, but we could, in order t oown the Club ? Yes ?

Not sure exactly how its done, but we can work on that. Feel free t opick constructive holes in the above, but ideally for each bit you think can't work, suggest something that does.  lets go !

How would we give him £50m TV money playing in League 1?

[terrytini]

Here is a copy of an e-mail I have just sent to Tom Fox.

 

Dear Mr Fox

This is a serious e-mail from a genuine supporter, I will forward all my personal details by return in order you can verify this.

We are all aware of the position of the Club, and the desire of the owner to sell.

As fans we are all asking each other what should we do about it.  Should we protest, go on 'strike', get behind the Team, what ?

The one proposal I am as yet unaware of is a genuine and credible effort by the fans to buy the Club.

It is my view that since this hasn't been explored fully, to my knowledge, there is no way of knowing if it could work.

As such, it seems that the idea should at least be explored, and I can think of no better way to begin a process foreign to me and most fans, than writing to you.

I would ask in the initial stage that you advise me of who it is that  I, or whoever begins looking into the feasibility of this, should make contact with. In other words, if I were a giant Corporation, where would I start, and is there any reason it is not the same place for a single fan ?

Thank you in anticipation of your assistance,

Regards
 

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

How would we give him £50m TV money playing in League 1?

Whoah !  Remember the 'for every fault give a possible answer rule !....

I said, for starters, lets just base it on those few figures.  One answer to your question may be, for example, that if we were in League One the asking price may've dropped in proportion to the current revenue/predicted revenue. 

Or we sell him the training ground, or use our wealthy backers to make up the shortfall .......ideas, ideas people.  Yes pick holes in your first sentence but come up withstuff in the next...what have we got to lose ?