AVST: AGM with Tom Fox Q&A

[VillaChris]

Ah yes I forgot Berbatov who seemed to be the plan B for Adebayor.

Dwight Gayle was a last minute panic move.

That said he'd be one of my targets for next season. Not quite premier league quality but scored a lot for Peterbrough at that level, quick and a 6 yard box poacher and could grow with a club where he starts every week.

[srsmithusa]

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Why hasn't a satire on football ownership been written? It seems ripe for comedy to me. 

You mean this isn't one?  This is real?  Oh @&$?$

[terrytini]

16 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Hasn't he already?

Two weeks ago he was the CEO, he made the decisions, he ran the business - now we've brought in a Chairman who speaks like a CEO and acts like a CEO and has already said he and "the board" will make the decisions and run the business - essentially, he's our de-facto CEO. In a very real sense, Tom Fox has been demoted - I'd have asked him last night if he was ashamed to have had this happen so publicly.

What's more disappointing is that we seem to have swapped the professionalism of Tom Fox, that positivity in speaking and that ability to not answer a question where he feels the answer might give someone a way to make the club look bad - for the shouty, look at me nonsense of Trump-Hollis.

There are a few things Hollis says that particularly annoy me.

Firstly, that spending money doesn't bring success in the Premier league - not only is this wrong, but it's laughably, ridiculously wrong - the very principle of the Premier league is that money and success should be the same thing. Now, I'm struggling to believe that he's so stupid as to believe that not spending money is just as likely to bring success as spending money, I don't have much faith in him, but if he can tie his own shoes, then he can probably see that. So, the only conclusion I can draw is that he think's I'm stupid enough to believe it when he says it, even though it's patently not true. It's an insult to fans, a blatant lie and a clue as to the disdain he holds us in. If he'd said "We need to make sure that where we invest we get smarter than we have been, buy players that retain a value and develop while they're here - even though we don't have a lot of money to spend, then being smart can still get us more value than we'd had in the past." I'd be pleased enough, I think that's the truth of the matter, but he doesn't care enough about us to be honest - he'd sooner tell us a lie that he thinks we're stupid enough to buy.

Secondly, we have a board that are able to make good decisions - our board consists of the following group of people - Steve Hollis and Randy Lerner. That's it, that;'s the whole board. At some point they'll appoint someone we like to that board, a Brian Little or a Graham Taylor type figure - I'm sure they'll allow that person no influence whatsoever, but that Mr Hollis, in keeping with his established principle believes that we, the fans will lap it up and be happy.

Thirdly, that we've wasted £60m this summer - on so many levels this is a stupid thing to say - net spend, player motivation, responsibility and accountability, creating a crisis out of what is already a troubled position. This is the kind of statement that would be a nightmare for any Chairman if it had been made by anyone else. I would imagine our (almost) CEO cringes. I know I do. It's the equivalent for the players of standing on the sideline at Bodymoor Heath and shouting "Hey Jordan, you're shit!". It's saying that the three man transfer team in the summer, Fox, Reilly and Sherwood have been responsible for an incredible foul up, but that in terms of accountability he's really happy with Fox and Reilly's role - in those terms, it's almost him saying "We wasted £60m in the summer - good job guys!". Fact is we didn't waste £60m in the summer, we bought some good players - we did the right thing, we need to it again this summer and keep doing it, forever - that's how successful clubs operate - at the same time we raise revenues to make sure we can afford to do it. 

He's spoken publicly twice, and both times they've resulted in a front page negative story about the club on the front page of the BBC Football website. He might be a great businessman, he might have some fantastic ideas on how to turn things around - but we absolutely need to keep Steve Hollis away from a microphone or a journalist - he's an absolute liability.

 

 

 

 

 

Top Post OBE.

Only just read it, I haven't had the heart to peer in to this thread and read/see what went on the other night, but my fears/concerns/questions started before then, from the original opening comments when Hollis was appointed. Before the biggest issue I have I must agree 100% with his appalling demotivating comments regarding the players we bought.incredible.

I completely agree with you, there can be no question that Fox has effectively been demoted, and very publicly. And although Fox was no messiah I am perplexed as to why.  Is our current plight considered his fault, if so, why wasn't he sacked instead of, or as well as, Sherwood ?  Or sacked now ? And if it is considered his fault, why ? Yes some people argue we got the right players at the wrong time, and so on, but we don't know what the alternatives were, or many other factors, and it does seem that a fair proportion, comparable to most Clubs 'hit' rate, are looking ok. 

If I were cynical perhaps I'd be concerned that Fox will argue, or was arguing, (as I'm sure I recall he has hinted) that the buying worked, and that 'ipso facto' we need to do it again (as you say OBE, every year, that's what people do to progress) - whereas Hollis (and his appalling comments you refer to in your first major criticism) has/is altering that to "spending didn't work in Randys early years, it didn't work last summer, and it isnt needed by 'other Clubs'"............

The problem with this is that far from all this latest upheaval being a proper fresh start it could be interpreted (and I think it is ) simply us going around in circles.  The purse strings were loosened a little last year (Yes I know about the net spend, but we did at least spend (Lambert would have loved to have had that kind of spending) - but just like when they were under Houllier and MON there is now a backing away, a retrenchment to the idea that what is really the problem is culture, infrastructue, etc etc, and that spending is only equal (or maybe less) in significance than these issues. It is the classic Corporate Cost cutting Managerial approach. All these indefinables that, if only they were fixed, everything would work again.

 

PERMIT ME PLEASE>>>>>>(As an aside, but relevant I feel, I was made redundant last year about 6 years into a similar exercise, which went a bit like this).......

...."its not more staff we need, its smarter working, new initiatives, etc"................'No, I think you'll find we need more staff'.................time goes by......

..."we need to reduce staff (budget) , but it wont affect us because we will work smarter, cleverer" ....................................'What, smarter than the smarter we already were doing ?..no, we actually need more staff'...............time goes by....

..."we need to reduce the amount we take on, (having shrunk the staff/budget)............."Er, what reduce it even more since we worked 'smarter' ?....no, we actually need more staff............time goes by.............

.."Its been decided that as we have reduced what we do to such a small amount, and have so few staff, we should stop altogether"

In other words you grow by growing, not by cutting !

 

The money that was wasted was when we tried to fund Lambert on the cheap, or not fund around the time of MON leaving resulting in the panic buys Houllier then had to make, or the huge costs Mcleish incurred for very little because by then we were so unattractive a proposition, or not getting Defoe/Bent whoever under MON and getting Harewood etc (nobody will convince me MON got some of those players by choice, I think we stopped short again,...anyway)...probably our LEAST poor window was the last one, where the problem was not that we bought badly, for a change, but that it wasn't recognised we needed MORE (particularly experience)to go with it.

So we are well and truly stuck, in my view. Lerner won't drop the selling price to one someone will pay, so the excuses are being made in advance as to why we shouldn't expect him to fund progress.

I look forward to seeing how Hollis will progress the Club by 'fixing' all the other issues - and if it works, no doubt Wycombe, Luton, and anyone else will do it too, once they all realise how silly they have been thinking it needed significant income.

Of course we won't progress, so in my view fans are left with the choice of ignoring all that, stowing our aspirations, and just go to the games expecting little, the way fans of most Clubs in the Country have to, or staying away either as defined protest or simple resignation.

I know we won't do either though, and that's what our Corporate friends both totally fail t ounderstand, yet ironically totally rely upon....

[briny_ear]

Not sure if I've mentioned this, but my bro-in-law is a massive Arsenal fan, long-term season ticket holder etc. We were chatting recently and I mentioned we had poached Tom Fox from Arsenal, so that was a sign of serious intent, etc.

It quickly became clear he had never heard of Tom Fox and had no perception of any role he had played at Arsenal.

I hope someone checked Fox's references before we appointed him.

I'm

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

19 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

 

Not sure if I've mentioned this, but my bro-in-law is a massive Arsenal fan, long-term season ticket holder etc. We were chatting recently and I mentioned we had poached Tom Fox from Arsenal, so that was a sign of serious intent, etc.

It quickly became clear he had never heard of Ton Fox and had no perception of any role he had played at Arsenal.

I hope someone checked Fox's references before we appointed him.

 

Arsenal is a massive organisation, further more he was Chief Commercial Officer etc. More involved in the background, securing deals, directing business development and marketing etc, no surprise he hasnt heard of him. Can you tell me who our Director/Chief of Marketing is without the googles or internets?

[snowychap]

14 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Can you tell me who our Director/Chief of Marketing is without the googles or internets?

We have someone doing that?

[briny_ear]

 

Not sure if I've mentioned this, but my bro-in-law is a massive Arsenal fan, long-term season ticket holder etc. We were chatting recently and I mentioned we had poached Tom Fox from Arsenal, so that was a sign of serious intent, etc.

It quickly became clear he had never heard of Ton Fox and had no perception of any role he had played at Arsenal.

I hope someone checked Fox's references before we appointed him.

[emoji3]

 

Arsenal is a massive organisation, further more he was Chief Commercial Officer etc. More involved in the background, securing deals, directing business development and marketing etc, no surprise he hasnt heard of him. Can you tell me who our Director/Chief of Marketing is without the googles or internets?

Yes, actually. He's a guy called Charlie Wijeratna, who had previously worked for Spurs and the London 2012 bid.

On appointment he said

"I am delighted to be returning to football at such a storied club as Aston Villa and I'm really excited about the challenge and the opportunity in front of us.

"I am particularly looking forward to working with a senior management team that understands the opportunity that the Premier League's global television reach offers clubs today.

"Aston Villa is one of England's great football clubs and I am keen to make my contribution to developing the club's commercial revenues while respecting its heritage and values."

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1025490/baku-2015-commercial-director-quits-european-games-in-home-straight-to-join-premier-league-aston-villa

Good luck with all that, then.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

Yes, actually. He's a guy called Charlie Wijeratna, who had previously worked for Spurs and the London 2012 bid.

On appointment he said

"I am delighted to be returning to football at such a storied club as Aston Villa and I'm really excited about the challenge and the opportunity in front of us.

"I am particularly looking forward to working with a senior management team that understands the opportunity that the Premier League's global television reach offers clubs today.

"Aston Villa is one of England's great football clubs and I am keen to make my contribution to developing the club's commercial revenues while respecting its heritage and values."

http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1025490/baku-2015-commercial-director-quits-european-games-in-home-straight-to-join-premier-league-aston-villa

Good luck with all that, then.

Fair enough Briny. lol. However I'm sure you know the average Villa fan couldnt give a crap.

 

 

Did you have to go onto the OS to make sure though?

Edited January 23, 2016 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[VillaCas]

I held off commenting yesterday on Fox, Hollis and the AGM and instead read the posts and watched how the tone seemed to soften somewhat during the day as a few more posters came out in their defence.

For me what is happening here is that some peoples natural optimism and need for a straw to cling to has outweighed the weight of evidence that has been clear to see for several years

I think most are united behind the idea that Lerner has been a terrible owner. For me he has been terrible not in a malicious, calculating way but in bumbling, half-baked, half-arsed way.  Personally, I’ve no problem at all with the amount he has invested but I have a real problem with his commitment, his flip-flopping, his poor decision-making and in the feast / famine way in which he has applied his money and his attention. In particular I hate the sycophants and yes-men he constantly surrounds himself with

When Fox was appointed I had real hope that this might signal the turning of a corner. Fox’s business background is fairly impressive and I was hopeful that this would translate into success for us. Personally I was pleased with Fox’s initial backing for Lambert – I liked Lambert and felt he was dealt a poor hand in terms of the backing he received and I liked that Fox did not jettison him at the first sign of trouble. Eventually of course he had to go but I had massive confidence that Fox had things under control and that a smart, sharp, thoughtful and intelligent manager was waiting in the wings.

Then Fox unveiled Sherwood – I was shocked (and said so here on VT). For me it signalled that Fox and his advisors were absolutely rolling the dice. Personally I’m all for a little bit of statistics and data to go along with “gut instinct” but Sherwoods appointment was all gut. He had no track record and was so removed from the sort of manager Lambert was that it was clear that a huge turnover of players would be required during the summer.

Now we come to the summer recruitment – this is where it completely unravels.  I think that we bought some good players but not the right mix for us. Not the right mix in terms of experience v potential and not the right mix in terms of quality – money is obviously not unlimited but we needed a couple of real quality aquistions to replace Vlaar, Delph and Benteke rather than say Traore (who I like but is not a here and now player)

They (Sherwood, Fox, Reilly, Halmstadt) clearly thought that Gabby and Gestede were going to be enough up front (even Sherwood realised quickly that this wasn’t going to be the case hence his desperate clutching at straws pursuit of Adebayor) – this was their biggest mistake

Sherwood and Fox look to me like they fell out early on. Sherwood wouldn’t play the new guys and the whole thing unravelled.

Now we come back to Lerner. I think Lerner he put all his hopes in Fox and now feels Fox has let him down.  He either can’t afford, financially or reputationally to get rid of Fox or he thinks that Fox’s were teething mistakes and he will get better. 

Just to be safe, Lerner has appointed Hollis who’s role is to watch Fox like a hawk. Hollis looks to me like another typical Lerner appointment – a yes man with no experience in the area in which he will be operating (for me our problems are as much football-related as they are business-related).

Hollis has not started well. He has been here five minutes and he is talking like he’s got all the answers. Everytime he opens his mouth “Villa in Chaos” headlines ensue. He is treating his customers (sic) like idiots with his “it’s not about the money” nonsense. Sadly, some are already falling for his trite, bland homilies around “hard work and desire”.  Expect a non-influencial Villa Legend to be appointed to the board next as a sop to the fans

Two things are most worrying, firstly, Hollis is talking like he his CEO not Fox and secondly, they are already wildly divergent over important issues – e.g. recruitment Hollis “You’ve only got to look at the league table”, Fox “Summer dealings have been a success, 7 are in the first XI and the rest in the match day squad”. Things have not started well and that does not bode well.

They’ve given up on us this year and I think are hoping to “reset” in the summer (I’m not sure this is how it was sold to Garde when he came onboard).  I expect fireworks between Fox and Hollis, if not publically then behind the scenes and my biggest worry is that Garde will walk once he realises what a circus he has joined

Do I have all the answers – No.  I’m in the camp now that I’d prefer Hollis to shut up and weedle as much money as he can out of Lerner and let Fox and Garde see what they can do in Championship.

(I didn’t know where best to post this so I’ve put in in the AGM and Hollis threads)

[markavfc40]

Good post mate. I have highlighted a couple of bits below.

59 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

Fox had things under control and that a smart, sharp, thoughtful and intelligent manager was waiting in the wings.

Then Fox unveiled Sherwood – I was shocked (and said so here on VT). For me it signalled that Fox and his advisors were absolutely rolling the dice. Personally I’m all for a little bit of statistics and data to go along with “gut instinct” but Sherwoods appointment was all gut. He had no track record and was so removed from the sort of manager Lambert was that it was clear that a huge turnover of players would be required during the summer.

I think at the end of last season you would have to say Fox got the appointment of Sherwood right. He kept us up. Back in February at full time against Hull that is all any of us wanted. The fact along the way we played some decent football at times, had some exciting games and got to the final of the FA  was all a huge bonus. Hindsight would say we perhaps should have got rid at full time on May 30th but I guess Sherwood had earned the chance to go into this season.

59 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

Two things are most worrying, firstly, Hollis is talking like he his CEO not Fox and secondly, they are already wildly divergent over important issues – e.g. recruitment Hollis “You’ve only got to look at the league table”, Fox “Summer dealings have been a success, 7 are in the first XI and the rest in the match day squad”.

I think I would go with Hollis on this one. I look at what Fox has said, look at the league table and how can I agree that we go things right over the summer. We have 12 points from 22 games ffs. Unless we are putting all the blame for that on Sherwood, quite possibly with the clubs previous form for finding a scapegoat, or we are saying the new lads are fine it is all on the likes of Westwoood, Sanchez, Bacuna, Guzan, Gil, Clark, Grealish etc. Well those lads were here last season and at no point did we ever find ourselves more than a couple of points from safety. The reason we are in so much shit is that we didn't adequately replace the best players we had - Delph, Benteke, Cleverley, Vlaar. In most cases we replaced them with unproven in this league prospects. Loads of potential that may become accomplished players in this league but never ready to carry a squad containing so many at best average players.

For me Fox is wrong. We did not get things right over the summer. The fact that most of the new recruits are either in the first 11 or the match day 18 doesn't make it a success. Quite the opposite. If we were sitting mid table it would but we are sitting bottom. The fact Fox can come out with tripe like that makes me think the guy is not suitable for the role he is occupying and may well explain why Hollis has been employed.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by markavfc40

[VillaCas]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Good post mate. I have highlighted a couple of bits below.

I think at the end of last season you would have to say Fox got the appointment of Sherwood right. He kept us up. Bck in February at full time against Hull that is all any of us wanted. The fact along the way we played some decent football at times, had some exciting games and got to the final of the FA  was all a huge bonus. Hindsight would say we perhaps should have got rid at full time on May 30th but I guess Sherwood had earned the chance to go into this season.

i see what you are saying. Its a subtle one but if Fox thought Sherwood would be a success which he obviuosly did (otherwise he wouldn't have appointed him), then he also would have thought that he would need to go forward with him.  It's only my opinion but Sherwood was never a proper long-term appointment for us and it signalled to me that Fox was fire-fighting rather than had a sustainable plan. Garde looks a much more considered appointment to me

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think I would go with Hollis on this one. I look at what Fox has said, look at the league table and how can I agree that we go things right over the summer. We have 12 points from 22 games ffs. Unless we are putting all the blame for that on Sherwood, quite possibly with the clubs previous form for finding a scapegoat, or we are saying the new lads are fine it is all on the likes of Westwoood, Sanchez, Bacuna, Guzan, Gil, Clark, Grealish. Well those lads were here last season and at no point did we ever find ourselves more than a couple of points from safety. The reason we are in so much shit is that we didn't adequately replace the best players we had - Delph, Benteke, Cleverley, Vlaar. In most cases we replaced them with unproven in this league prospects. Loads of potential that may become accomplished players in this league but never ready to carry a squad containing so many at best average players.

For me Fox is wrong. We did not get things right over the summer. The fact that most of the new recruits are either in the first 11 or the match day 18 doesn't make it a success. Quite the opposite. If we were sitting mid table it would but we are sitting bottom. The fact Fox can come out with tripe like that makes me think the guy is not suitable for the role he is occupying and may well explain why Hollis has been employed.

Again a subtle point of difference - I'm not really disputing the success/failure question (personally I think a bit of both, good players but the wrong mix and the wrong manager to lead them), i'm concerned that Fox and Hollis are divergent and this does not bode well going forward. Even if they do disagree, Hollis should have to nous to not make that opinion public.

He has been far to publically vocal in areas that he is ill-qualified to comments on and/or should be kept behind closed doors. Some might welcome his candour but i'd prefer to see Fox and Hollis at least pretend that they are in accord

I should declare, I'm biased against Hollis as I took against him the moment I saw his woeful performance in Midlands Today. I clearly don't disgree with everything he says but the fact that he doesn't realise how daft he is sounding (the Dunning-Kruger effect) really fills me with concern

Little to point to yet but all my support and hopes lie with Garde, who i hope (and beleive) will be our saviour

[TRO]

On 1/21/2016 at 23:14, mikeyp102 said:

What a lol of crock that is.. Always passing the buck at avfc..

Also 3rd highest spender in ten years? I'd be very surprised if that's accurate...Off the top of my head, Liverpool, utd and city have easily spunkef £300m in the last 5 yrs. Then throw in the likes of Chelsea and Spurs (who spent the entire £90m from bale in one summer).

......"with the owners own money".....thats what I understand was said.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

 

He has been far to publically vocal in areas that he is ill-qualified to comments on and/or should be kept behind closed doors. Some might welcome his candour but i'd prefer to see Fox and Hollis at least pretend that they are in accord

 

I am one that welcomes the frank delivery/honesty of his words.

equally I understand the unity you are professing and under normal circumstances and good practice in place.....I would favour your stance.

However, our position is not normal, not for our club.

We have had our fair share of silence, hidden agenda's and a downright dismissive attitude towards failure and poor decision making....with Nero at the helm

so, let them smoke each other out.....as painful as it is ,we will get to the bottom of all this.

ps I am just hazarding a guess...I think Fox could be in a rocky boat.

Edited January 23, 2016 by TRO

[VillaCas]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am one that welcomes the frank delivery/honesty of his words.

equally I understand the unity you are professing and under normal circumstances and good practice in place.....I would favour your stance.

However, our position is not normal, not for our club.

We have had our fair share of silence, hidden agenda's and a downright dismissive attitude towards failure and poor decision making....with Nero at the helm

so, let them smoke each other out.....as painful as it is ,we will get to the bottom of all this.

ps I am just hazarding a guess...I think Fox could be in a rocky boat.

I'm very grateful for some straight talking but I'd prefer it to come from Fox. Communication is the CEOs job not the chairmans. Hollies seems to relish the limelight - I've met his type before 

[terrytini]

For me the signings were right in terms of approach ( I.e.upcoming talent spotted and the money spent to get them, rather than various rotating  unsettled Premier League players with - usually - their best days behind them or lower League gambles) but incomplete, in that some proven quality/ experience was neeed ASWELL to replace the loss of Tekkers Delph and Vlaar. Assuming we had stayed up more of the first type would have added nicely to the squad. I am guessing,but I think Fox would have learnt that, and wanted " last years approach PLUS" in future.

The problem for me is that Hollis didn't say that. If you put his different comments together it is really the spending of a large amount of money he is criticising. He is advocating a " spend less" approach.

If I'm right about that difference, it is appalling.

And I'm all for straight talking, but it still needs to be considered and sensible, which wasn't evident in the ones telling the new players they were a waste of money, and to be any use they have to be meaningful in a positive and progressive way, which isn't evidence in his dismissal of money as a major factor in success.

Finally as far as I can tell we now have 3 voices speaking. I can see the case for 2, a Manager as regards football, and the CEO as regards business and development.

So nothing OK about the Hollis appointment for me.

[TRO]

If you hide all what has gone on.....it's like creating an inner sanctum and encouraging hidden agendas....a danger of its own.

If you divulge all its like looking for scapegoats and blaming others.....also a danger of its own.

this does have an air of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

PS i was kinda glad Lerner is removing himself from any executive decisions....as that is my understanding.

Edited January 23, 2016 by TRO