VillaChris Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 That is ridiculous really, surely it makes sense for Lingard to continue playing regularly for under 21s before being parachuted into main squad. I honestly think likes of puncheon and even Zaha can fell hard doneby last few months the way they've played in some games for Palace not to get call ups. Would Bolaise be considered if he hadn't of declared for Congo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjaacckk91 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I don't even understand how lingard is considered for the senior squad let alone in it, is he eligible for another national side or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 With a name like Lingard you'd think he would maybe be available for Denmark but I've seen no mention of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 1 hour ago, sexbelowsound said: Is there anybody here who doesn't already think Hodgson is a joke? Sort of . . . I don't think everything he's done has been terrible. Sometimes I see the logic in what he's trying, and I think he's doing a reasonable job bringing through a new generation of players while doing well enough with the tat who are in their 'prime' currently. The results have been just about acceptable. However, he really does suffer from faddishness sometimes. It's weird, normally old guys are stereotyped as dinosaurs who are stuck in their ways, but Hodgson has the opposite problem, he's always swept away by what happened last week. I mean, does anybody think Lingard would have been called up if he hadn't happened to score in Utd's last game? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: Sort of . . . I don't think everything he's done has been terrible. Sometimes I see the logic in what he's trying, and I think he's doing a reasonable job bringing through a new generation of players while doing well enough with the tat who are in their 'prime' currently. The results have been just about acceptable. However, he really does suffer from faddishness sometimes. It's weird, normally old guys are stereotyped as dinosaurs who are stuck in their ways, but Hodgson has the opposite problem, he's always swept away by what happened last week. I mean, does anybody think Lingard would have been called up if he hadn't happened to score in Utd's last game? Good post, personally I have no interest in him or the national side at the moment. I'm not a fair weather fan either, I haven't enjoyed watching England for years and the 2002 Euros was the last time I really had any interest in us as a footballing nation. Even though we had a 100% qualifying campaign I'm reasonably confident in predicting that most people knew Hodgson would go into his shell against Spain. If our aim is to build for the future then that is fine but eventually to win a tournament you have to actually go toe to toe with the big boys rather than pushing about the weaker teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I really hope the FA abandon the silly "the England manager must be English" mantra when they're picking the next guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 12 minutes ago, Mantis said: I really hope the FA abandon the silly "the England manager must be English" mantra when they're picking the next guy. Depends. Proven winners like Capello and Eriksson couldn't do much with a much better squad in all the tournaments, yes England had consistancy under Sven and some good performances at times but still no semi final spot in any tournament which I consider the major success given quarter finals have generally been the par down the years. And that was with Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry, Carragher, Cole, Nevile, Scholes, J Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Hargraves, Beckham, Scholes, Owen, Rooney as options for most of those tournaments. That's why I defend Woy, surely people can see the pool of players now is nowhere near the level of back then, most of those were regular starters for champions league clubs. I don't care that some of them cost 50m in transfer fees now and god knows what in wages, that's football inflation for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 10 minutes ago, Mantis said: I really hope the FA abandon the silly "the England manager must be English" mantra when they're picking the next guy. Reminds me of the time when we were looking at "premier league experience" as the be all and end all. The game has moved on and evolved both internationally and at club level. Ridiculous restricting the manager shortlist to what is essentially a very small number. At club level we atleast seem to be moving in the right direction and have a plan whether it works or not remains to be seen. When Roy is sacked it's time they moved in the same direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Quite a cool campaign starting to bubble for everyone in Wembley to simg La Marseillaise pre kickoff on Tuesday. As I've said I don't believe the game should go ahead but that would sound brilliant and a defiant statement. Even if you don't know the world it's an easy enough tune to hum along to. Probably one of my favourite national anthems in Football along with the Portugal one and I also weirdly like the Uruguayan one aswell. Edited November 15, 2015 by VillaChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 12 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Depends. Proven winners like Capello and Eriksson couldn't do much with a much better squad in all the tournaments, yes England had consistancy under Sven and some good performances at times but still no semi final spot in any tournament which I consider the major success given quarter finals have generally been the par down the years. And that was with Ferdinand, Campbell, Terry, Carragher, Cole, Nevile, Scholes, J Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Hargraves, Beckham, Scholes, Owen, Rooney as options for most of those tournaments. That's why I defend Woy, surely people can see the pool of players now is nowhere near the level of back then, most of those were regular starters for champions league clubs. I don't care that some of them cost 50m in transfer fees now and god knows what in wages, that's football inflation for you. I agree that the pool of players isn't as deep but with Woy I have no hope of England doing anything. At least with Capello and Eriksson it felt like there was hope. It's almost as if he was employed specifically to dampen expectations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Just now, sexbelowsound said: I agree that the pool of players isn't as deep but with Woy I have no hope of England doing anything. At least with Capello and Eriksson it felt like there was hope. It's almost as if he was employed specifically to dampen expectations.... My feeling has always been he's a transitional manager, someone appointed and specifically told to give as many young players a chance as possible as even the FA couldn't miss Rio, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard etc all retiring at the same time. I agree maybe an old choice for that role but even his harshest critic can't deny he's giving a shed load of players a chance under his reign, not all of them good enough of course but that's beyond his control. Someone like Capello would never have done that in a million years. I liken it a bit to Toshack in charge of Wales. Probably out of touch in the modern game and the results were generally poor in his 5 year spell but he put people like Ramsey, Bale, Ledley, Gunter in young and got them playing as a unit and Wales have eventually prospered now. Will the same happen for England in 5 years time with Kane, Sterling, Stones, Luke Shaw, Barkley, Dele Ali? We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommybread Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) 2 hours ago, VillaChris said: That is ridiculous really, surely it makes sense for Lingard to continue playing regularly for under 21s before being parachuted into main squad. I honestly think likes of puncheon and even Zaha can fell hard doneby last few months the way they've played in some games for Palace not to get call ups. Would Bolaise be considered if he hadn't of declared for Congo? He isn't eligible for the u21s. 2 hours ago, sexbelowsound said: With a name like Lingard you'd think he would maybe be available for Denmark but I've seen no mention of it. It is an old English name originating from the Saxons and it is predominately found in the Yorkshire and Lancashire areas. Lingard isn't eligible for any other nation. Edited November 15, 2015 by tommybread 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I also think England's approach is focused on long-term success but while that is all well & good, you still need players of high quality to win (in before someone mentions Greece!). There is a decent crop of young players around but will they be as good as Spain or Germany's triumphant generations? Time will tell but I've yet to see one potentially world class player among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Just now, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said: I also think England's approach is focused on long-term success but while that is all well & good, you still need players of high quality to win (in before someone mentions Greece!). There is a decent crop of young players around but will they be as good as Spain or Germany's triumphant generations? Time will tell but I've yet to see one potentially world class player among them. No probably not. I think in future Dier, Ali and Barkley could be a very interesting midfield as that looks quite balanced but the second coming of Iniesta, Xavi and Xabi Alonso, probably not. France under 23 options are ridiculously so much better, they will have an amazing squad in a few years. That is beyond the control of the manager though, he just can't conjour up world class under 21s out of nowhere and I don't see obvious ones not getting picked. There is so much more wrong with the infastructure of English football regardless of whether the manager is English or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I sometimes feel sorry for Hodgson but then he does something like pick Lingard then I lose any sympathy The message is its better to be a bit part player as a 'big club' than play week in week out for a less fashionable team 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommybread Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 It should also be taken into consideration Southgate rates Lingard very highly and would have been putting in good words for him to Hodgson. Lingard and Redmond have been the best u21 players over the last couple of years and should be rewarded for it. Redmond is injured currently but he certainly deserves a call up, although I hope he is overlooked and Ireland can snap him up. I wouldn't call Lingard up myself, if only because all of United's players get injured playing for England, but he is a good young talent and I can certainly see why he is picked over older players like Young and Puncheon who clearly aren't going to have a future in the side. You can say Zaha but he is hardly great for Palace and he was consistently outshone by Redmond and Lingard in the u21s, I like Albrighton as well and probably would have picked him but again he is hardly anything to shout about. None of the options are great and really whoever Hodgson chose to bring up wasn't going to make one bit of difference. He may as well pick one he sees potential in and could have a future in the setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Personally I don't think he was picked because of his U21 performances, if this was the case he would've been mentioned by Roy before he played the 180(?) minutes of premier league football. If anything this has sealed his inevitable inflated move to another premier league club once United have gone back in the crazy world that is the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommybread Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 1 hour ago, dudevillaisnice said: Personally I don't think he was picked because of his U21 performances, if this was the case he would've been mentioned by Roy before he played the 180(?) minutes of premier league football. If anything this has sealed his inevitable inflated move to another premier league club once United have gone back in the crazy world that is the transfer market. He wouldn't have been mentioned because he wasn't playing first team football. If you don't play for your club you don't play for your country, its simple. Lingard is playing for United now so he is in contention for England. He is good enough to play in the Premier League, England cap or no England cap so there is no inflation about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 It's a case of wait and see. We have seen players in the past burst on the scene do well initially get figured out and struggle, I think he looks good at United because everything is laboured there personally. I think it's a kick in the teeth for albrighton (who did it last year and now this) Puncheon has done well too, age shouldn't be a problem he was happy to call up 31 year Rickie Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 If you don't play for your club you don't play for your country, its simple. Not true under Hodgson. Delph says hi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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