The Rémi Garde thread

[The Fun Factory]

12 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said:

Firstly, IMO it is not the only thing. Fox and co are one of many factors that should be considered.

As for turning the ship around in January - I think you may be being over generous. Under his weak leadership we have floundered.

5 points in 4 games (one of which versus the current league leaders) is the best run of our miserable campaign. There was signs of improvement, certainly versus Palace and the Leicester game. Villa were still in trouble in January but it could potentially have turned around if the club had spent big in January getting in some quality signings like Remy and Debuchy. Yet they fiddled while Rome burned and since then Garde has had that resigned look. 

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This is just incorrect.

First of all, the same team? i don't think so. He had resources that Remi could only dream of. And still managed some worse individual results with THAT team than Remi has.

Secondly, we weren't in that much trouble when Sherwood took over. We only dropped into the bottom 3 after Hull. Sherwood left us with 1 win all season and 9(?) losses.

Personally, this club needs to start again. The board looks very different and although I'd like to see Remi given a chance to build his own team, I don't think it's the right thing to do in our circumstance. His reign is tainted and it looks like he's done here.

Perhaps it was my wording, apologies.

I should not have included "same" in the context you have read it

I meant the "same team" we are talking about being thrown under the bus.

I did not mean to compare them with the team now.

Edited March 28, 2016 by TRO

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

There is no real distinction is there and it would be clutching at straws either way. Bottom line is one took 4 points from 10 games the other 12 points from 20 so far. This is a poor squad of players but for me they are not that poor so both have been huge failures based on this seasons results.

What I would say about both Sherwood and Garde is that they were both risks. Sherwood had limited experience as a manager and had never dealt in the transfer market before therefore to allow him a crucial role in overseeing a massive overhaul of players probably wasn't the wisest move. Garde came in with three years managerial experience at a foreign club used to competing amongst the top half dozen in that league. Bringing him in to a foreign league to a club at the foot of the table and one that had been struggling for years again probably wasn't the wisest move.

The main reason I want rid of Garde now is that I still see him as a risk. He doesn't know the Championship and has shown he can get f all out of these players, and whether we like it or not many of them will stay. I don't want a risk at the moment. I think those on the board now will ensure that the next manager, unlike both Sherwood and Garde, will have the relevant proven experience for the task that faces them and that can only be a good thing and an improvement on what has gone before.
 

Totally endorse that Mark,

not so sure as you on the players....but hoping you are right.

and in bold, is precisely what I alluded to and went on to elaborate with the cigarette paper.

Edited March 28, 2016 by TRO

[Blasterpocket68]

15 hours ago, Mantis said:

I beg to differ. All of those managers at least had a summer transfer window.

Stevo was right though - that wasn't really my point. My point was that as things stand the next manager will almost certainly fail and once again certain people will fail to recognise the reasons behind that so we'll be stuck in a vicious cycle of getting a new manager every 9-12 months.

Rubbish why will he certainly fail! 

IF the right manager is appointed by the new board and supported financially there is every reason to be optimistic. 

Garde was a bad appointment END OF

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, Xela said:

Sherwood gets hate for throwing the team under the bus but Garde who does it ona regular gets a free pass off some people.

Both are poor managers and both deserve/deserved the sack 

sure I would imagine the uproar if Sherwood had of went to his mates in the media and said the following

Quote

“I’ve spoken to Remi many times,” Ginola said. “He said the attitude of the players isn’t bright. He also said that ‘I don’t think I have got the players to understand what keeping Villa in the Premier League means’. They are not ready to fight for the club. The attitude on the pitch isn’t right. I think he gave up.”

 

[sharkyvilla]

2 hours ago, Blasterpocket68 said:

Rubbish why will he certainly fail! 

IF the right manager is appointed by the new board and supported financially there is every reason to be optimistic. 

Garde was a bad appointment END OF

I go back to if a new manager is going to be supported financially, why didn't they give Remi a proper chance in January.  Even that €6m that was tied up with the goalkeeper trying to get the work permit could have been re-allocated when it got turned down.  The results had actually improved in the window, to get nobody in was criminal.  If they had done we may still be in the hunt to stay up and not in this limbo of supposedly trying to get the best deal terminating Garde's contract, wasting even more millions.  I can understand why people are less than optimistic about a new manager coming in doing a better job.

[a m ole]

I don't know why a new manager gets the luxury of being judged only if he's backed, but Garde takes all the criticism and abuse without having the chance.

also, yes, Garde was probably a bad appointment now that we know they had no intention of giving him anything to work with.  Telling Garde that his targets said they didn't want to come, for him to call and hear no one had been in touch is absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

Backed in January after a decent run of results and things could have been a lot different. We would likely have gone down still but 'fighting', which is what most people would have found acceptable. 

But this is just a perfect example of the terrible decision making that's crippled us for so long. Fox hires a promising manager with a long term view taking the risk that we might still go down but the squad will be a lot healthier as we rebuild and get some momentum going instead of treading water for a 6th season and then doesn't provide him with the resources to do so. Obviously in hindsight we were better off with a short term fix and re-assessing in the summer but only because the original plan wasn't followed through with.

It's funny because I defended the players for a long time saying they are good enough (they aren't, especially mentally), I defended Fox saying that he knew what he was doing and had a long term plan to get us back on our feet (he doesn't) and I blamed Sherwood for a lot and absolved Riley of blame (they're both responsible but I feel I was slightly too harsh on Timmy after recent revelations). Make a plan, make decisions that compromise that plan, blame someone else, sack them, make a different plan, **** up the new plan. Aston Villa under Lerner. I can't believe I fell for the PR machine as some have said in the past.

If Garde has had enough then of course we should find a replacement. I'm hoping that the new board have had long discussions with him to apologise for the lack of support and show how the club plan to move forward together for next season and ask if he'd like to be a part of it. If not, fine. Just get someone who isn't Pearson and support them to tear apart this squad. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by a m ole

[Brumstopdogs]

4 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

5 points in 4 games (one of which versus the current league leaders) is the best run of our miserable campaign. There was signs of improvement, certainly versus Palace and the Leicester game. Villa were still in trouble in January but it could potentially have turned around if the club had spent big in January getting in some quality signings like Remy and Debuchy. Yet they fiddled while Rome burned and since then Garde has had that resigned look. 

A win via a horrendous goalkeeping mistake against Palace wasn't enough and the other couple of points sadly too little too late. The Norwich and Sunderland matches were key games preceding these results and Garde's dodgy selections and tactics arguably sealed our fate.

The club did try and make some signings in January but for various reasons they didn't happen. They have tried spending big in the past and it hasn't always worked so I can see why they came to the conclusion that spending big in January wasn't the best move.

Garde is paid to motivate the players and get the best out of them - he has failed miserably to do this.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Brumstopdogs

[DCJonah]

19 hours ago, Mantis said:

I beg to differ. All of those managers at least had a summer transfer window.

Stevo was right though - that wasn't really my point. My point was that as things stand the next manager will almost certainly fail and once again certain people will fail to recognise the reasons behind that so we'll be stuck in a vicious cycle of getting a new manager every 9-12 months.

Who do you mean by certain people? 

If you're talking about fans then I refer you back to my original post. 

If you mean people making decisions at the club, well they've all changed. 

So who do you mean?

[Xela]

25 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

A win via a horrendous goalkeeping mistake against Palace wasn't enough and the other couple of points sadly too little too late. The Norwich and Sunderland matches were key games preceding these results and Garde's dodgy selections and tactics arguably sealed our fate.

The club did try and make some signings in January but for various reasons they didn't happen. They have tried spending big in the past and it hasn't always worked so I can see why they came to the conclusion that spending big in January wasn't the best move.

Garde is paid to motivate the players and get the best out of them - he has failed miserably to do this.

The Norwich and Sunderland games were the ones that made me (finally) realise we had no hope of staying up. Pitiful performances. 

[markavfc40]

4 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

5 points in 4 games (one of which versus the current league leaders) is the best run of our miserable campaign. There was signs of improvement, certainly versus Palace and the Leicester game. Villa were still in trouble in January but it could potentially have turned around if the club had spent big in January getting in some quality signings like Remy and Debuchy. Yet they fiddled while Rome burned and since then Garde has had that resigned look. 

Mate that is looking at such a tiny selection of results and doesn't put it quite in its full context.

When the transfer window opened we had just lost to fellow struggler's in Norwich and Sunderland and sat 12 points from safety. I have no time for Randy Lerner but at that time I did not expect us to spend big. A week into the window we drew with Wycombe. We then beat Palace and got draws against Leicester and West Brom at which point with a week of the transfer window left we still found ourselves 10 points from safety. Before the window did finally shut we also got battered by Man City in the cup.

I have a lot of sympathy for Garde but hand on heart after we failed to get anything out of the Norwich and Sunderland games and found ourselves so far adrift I never expected he would be backed anything like substantially. Looking back now at how bad we have been over the last two months it would have taken a massive amount of money to bring in 3 or 4 players that could have given us any chance of survival. It just wasn't going to happen.

Bottom line for me with Garde is that as poor as the squad was he inherited taking just 12 points in 20 games, and having taken some big beatings in those games, is a shocking return. It would now take a huge leap of faith to say he is the man to lead us into next season in a league he has zero experience in on the back of a terrible sustained period of results this season and trusting him to get the best out of players, as many of this mob will stay, he has gotten f all out of so far. I'm not prepared to take that risk and it appears neither are those that matter.

[Harry]

The distinction I would draw between Garde and Sherwood is the former was the right manager at utterly the wrong time and in the wrong circumstances. The latter was just the wrong manager…period.

 

 

[foreveryoung]

Brought in at the wrong time, its not rocket science. If the club was structurally sound and funds were available for him to bring in players who can play his football, he would have no problem here.. He, as many, is not a manager to come in and deal with shit. Basically what I am trying to say is, he's a coach not a f**** magician.

[Mantis]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Who do you mean by certain people? 

If you're talking about fans then I refer you back to my original post. 

If you mean people making decisions at the club, well they've all changed. 

So who do you mean?

Fans who just want an excuse to jump on the manager's back, although if our next manager is a British PASHUN manager then some people may give him more time.

[TRO]

22 hours ago, Mantis said:

My point was that as things stand the next manager will almost certainly fail and once again certain people will fail to recognise the reasons behind that so we'll be stuck in a vicious cycle of getting a new manager every 9-12 months.

But surely the new structure have no intention of letting things stand, as you put it.

so there is no reason for assuming the next manager will be a failure.

Every manager needs financial support in order to create his own stamp.

......but that financial support has been made (last summer and prior to that) we have squandered it.....through various reasons.

lets hope the next manager gets some and it is spent well......by him.

[markavfc40]

16 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Fans who just want an excuse to jump on the manager's back, although if our next manager is a British PASHUN manager then some people may give him more time.

In fairness mate the last manager was British and some fans wanted him out pretty much from the minute he arrived. In the end he got 23 league games before he was sacked.

Regardless if the manager comes from Aston or Timbuktu all any fan wants is a manager who can get the best out of what he has at his disposal be that players he inherits or whatever money he is given to spend on new ones. You can only judge Garde on him getting the best out of what he inherited and despite me thinking this is a poor squad 12 points from 20 games is a shocking return, especially given the manner of some of the defeats, and for me this squad is not as bad as such a paltry return.

Edited March 28, 2016 by markavfc40

[Upper north stander]

3 hours ago, Brumstopdogs said:

A win via a horrendous goalkeeping mistake against Palace wasn't enough and the other couple of points sadly too little too late. The Norwich and Sunderland matches were key games preceding these results and Garde's dodgy selections and tactics arguably sealed our fate.

The club did try and make some signings in January but for various reasons they didn't happen. They have tried spending big in the past and it hasn't always worked so I can see why they came to the conclusion that spending big in January wasn't the best move.

Garde is paid to motivate the players and get the best out of them - he has failed miserably to do this.

This! He hasn't motivated the players( even the bleedin French ones!) he hasn't motivated or inspired me or my son! In fact he has utterly depressed me! We have got the players to survive in this league the problem is Garde hasn't got the best out of what he's got..... Sherwood and Christ even lambert had balls this guy well!!!and at the times they needed too they galvanised the team and we got the results we needed or wanted, could you imagine if it were Garde In charge last year when we played tesco twice in a week!! We would not of been going to Wembley that's for sure!! .....! Garde out! 

[Mantis]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

In fairness mate the last manager was British and some fans wanted him out pretty much from the minute he arrived. In the end he got 23 league games before he was sacked.

Regardless if the manager comes from Aston or Timbuktu all any fan wants is a manager who can get the best out of what he has at his disposal be that players he inherits or whatever money he is given to spend on new ones. You can only judge Garde on him getting the best out of what he inherited and despite me thinking this is a poor squad 12 points from 20 games is a shocking return, especially given the manner of some of the defeats, and for me this squad is not as bad as such a paltry return.

I never said British managers don't sometimes get harshly treated.

No Garde hasn't done a great job but at the same time I don't believe anybody we could get to replace him would do much of a better job either.

[JP1982]

Although I have been an advocate of remi's, and I still am to a degree, as our hideous form has continued it is apparent that a change is inevitable, and most likely needed. If media  reports of a compensation package being at a deadlock are true, I have to say I support hollis's stance. Remi's demeanour and refusal to comit to the club for a number of weeks have pretty much suggested that he will be off on his own accord at the end of season regardless. I get the contractual responsibility to honour the three years given to him, but why should we pay out his contract when he wants out and will probably walk when the time suits? The sooner this comes to an end the better in my opinion. Leicester have proved what momentum can do, so we need we need to try and at least improve the atmosphere around the club, even if we are unlikely to improve results with the current squad. I wish him well but sadly time to move on for both parties.

[PaulC]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

The distinction I would draw between Garde and Sherwood is the former was the right manager at utterly the wrong time and in the wrong circumstances. The latter was just the wrong manager…period.

 

 

I disagree Sherwood was the right man to keep us last season whereas Garde was the wrong man to keep us up this season.