lapal_fan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Offers a defence of a man sacked for bullying kids Imply kids failing to make it is part of the problem. Post a stupid gif when called out on it. Stellar work in this thread. You've got to feel proud to get that in over a few hours in the day. Not surprised. Nah it's fine. It's just you find a way of making things incredibly tedious and anal (Kenneth). It's like trying to converse with piers Morgan And the full stop, condescending word thing you do.. urgh. You're not an Opta stat tweet lmao Edited August 22, 2019 by lapal_fan 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Nah it's fine. It's just you find a way of making things incredibly tedious and anal (Kenneth). It's like trying to converse with piers Morgan And the full stop, condescending word thing you do.. urgh. You're not an Opta stat tweet lmao Maybe read your initial post. 10% didn't like his methods. Kids didn't make it are frustrated. Oh sorry, too many full stops. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 8 hours ago, bobzy said: I find it weird that bullying is being equated to “giving a kick up the arse”. It isn’t that at all. That people are brushing this off as old school methods is **** bizarre. Depends doesn't it. If he took the same approach with all players then I'm not sure that's bullying, if he singled people out individually and treated them differently to everyone else then maybe that is bullying. Seems like the usual crowd offering the indignation mixed with the moral high ground, despite seemingly no-one having any real idea of what's gone on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Depends doesn't it. If he took the same approach with all players then I'm not sure that's bullying, if he singled people out individually and treated them differently to everyone else then maybe that is bullying. Seems like the usual crowd offering the indignation mixed with the moral high ground, despite seemingly no-one having any real idea of what's gone on. We do have an idea what's gone on. The club sacked him because upon formal investigation, they found his actions, that they referred to as bullying, to be unacceptable. Unless we think this investigation was fraudulent or incomplete or something, getting into the semantics of what constitutes bullying is odd. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Keyblade said: We do have an idea what's gone on. The club sacked him because upon formal investigation, they found his actions, that they referred to as bullying, to be unacceptable. Unless we think this investigation was fraudulent or incomplete or something, getting into the semantics of what constitutes bullying is odd. How do people not get this? I can only imagine that it's by choice to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted August 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Depends doesn't it. If he took the same approach with all players then I'm not sure that's bullying, if he singled people out individually and treated them differently to everyone else then maybe that is bullying. Seems like the usual crowd offering the indignation mixed with the moral high ground, despite seemingly no-one having any real idea of what's gone on. Why are people going on about his coaching approach?! He’s been sacked for bullying. Not “hard coaching”. Not “giving lads a kick up the arse”. Bullying. The publically made allegations all seem to imply that MacDonald constantly gave youngsters verbal and physical abuse. That isn’t **** coaching. Edited August 22, 2019 by bobzy 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, bobzy said: Why are people going on about his coaching approach?! He’s been sacked for bullying. Not “hard coaching”. Not “giving lads a kick up the arse”. Bullying. The publically made allegations all seem to imply that MacDonald constantly gave youngsters verbal and physical abuse. That isn’t **** coaching. Why are people talking about his coaching? Because presumably he did his bullying whilst coaching. I doubt he was on MSN messenger of an evening calling Farrelly a shit word removed. No-one in the thread has said "KMac was not a bully". We acknowledge he was a bully, because an investigation found him to be so. But likewise, he wasn't a bully to those who have publicly backed him. We don't know the level of abuse, whether it was physical or mental. It could have been hard coaching to one person, but personal abuse to others. It's down the the individual to make that assessment, and it's down to them to report it or as it appears (probably due to age) suffer in silence. He's got his deserved punishment anyway, he's gone. He probably didn't differentiate his treatment of kids and adults, which is probably what some are alluding to with comparisons to Alex Ferguson. I dare say his attitude was "we'll make men out of these boys". Very presumptuous, but it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 22, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 22, 2019 I think initially I thought “well what one person considers bullying, another would say it’s just tough love. While it’s unpleasant can we know for certain?” We don’t know the exact day to day goings on - did he treat Gabby the same as he treated Gareth Farrelly, did the one take the bullying better than the other, therefore didn’t consider it as “bullying”? Did he target particular players, whom he felt warranted it? Did he have any idea of the level of impact he was having on the players? I doubt we’ll find out for certain. But what we do know is that he has bullied youngsters and his actions have driven some of them to some very dark places. It shouldn’t have happened 20 years ago, and it shouldn’t happen today. Glad that the club have eventually had the necessary investigation into the matter and acted accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Why are people talking about his coaching? Because presumably he did his bullying whilst coaching. I doubt he was on MSN messenger of an evening calling Farrelly a shit word removed. No-one in the thread has said "KMac was not a bully". We acknowledge he was a bully, because an investigation found him to be so. But likewise, he wasn't a bully to those who have publicly backed him. We don't know the level of abuse, whether it was physical or mental. It could have been hard coaching to one person, but personal abuse to others. It's down the the individual to make that assessment, and it's down to them to report it or as it appears (probably due to age) suffer in silence. He's got his deserved punishment anyway, he's gone. He probably didn't differentiate his treatment of kids and adults, which is probably what some are alluding to with comparisons to Alex Ferguson. I dare say his attitude was "we'll make men out of these boys". Very presumptuous, but it's possible. Yet again, though, you’re talking about as if he treated everyone the same and it was all to do with his coaching. “We’ll make men out of these boys”. It’s literally nothing to do with coaching. That’s just his job. You seem to make the distinction at the start of your post (did his bullying whilst coaching) and then go on to blend it back in. “Could have been hard coaching to some and not to others”. It wasn’t coaching. It was bullying. Different things! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Why are people talking about his coaching? Because presumably he did his bullying whilst coaching. I doubt he was on MSN messenger of an evening calling Farrelly a shit word removed. No-one in the thread has said "KMac was not a bully". We acknowledge he was a bully, because an investigation found him to be so. But likewise, he wasn't a bully to those who have publicly backed him. We don't know the level of abuse, whether it was physical or mental. It could have been hard coaching to one person, but personal abuse to others. It's down the the individual to make that assessment, and it's down to them to report it or as it appears (probably due to age) suffer in silence. He's got his deserved punishment anyway, he's gone. He probably didn't differentiate his treatment of kids and adults, which is probably what some are alluding to with comparisons to Alex Ferguson. I dare say his attitude was "we'll make men out of these boys". Very presumptuous, but it's possible. I think you need to educate yourself on these sorts of people. "He wasn't a bully to those that publicly backed him" That means nothing. These types of people don't abuse every single person they meet. They choose vulnerable people or people they perceive as weak. That last bit is unbelievably presumptuous. The idea that he treated everyone the same and wanted to get the best out of them all is laughable. Do you really think kids who suffered with depression and suicidal thoughts got there because a coach treated them the same as every other adult and child they encountered? Do you really think he is the only youth coach in the country to want to "make men out of them" yet how many others have had national press investigating, independent investigations at club level and then lost their job? Also nothing like Fergie motivating professional adults in a half time speech. Unfortunately its ignorant views like this that allow these bastards to get away with it for so long. And earlier you said you weren't saying he treated everyone the same, yet here you are doing it again. Edited August 22, 2019 by DCJonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 What level of "hard coaching" would make someone, actually multiple people, contemplate killing themselves? That's well beyond the realm of coaching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Keyblade said: What level of "hard coaching" would make someone, actually multiple people, contemplate killing themselves? That's well beyond the realm of coaching. Yeah but Gabby said he didn't bully him so who **** knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 **** hell, quite honestly, this discussion is retarded. Did you think "that's unbelievably presumptuous" when I actually put "that's very presumptuous, but possible"? What a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, Keyblade said: What level of "hard coaching" would make someone, actually multiple people, contemplate killing themselves? That's well beyond the realm of coaching. Words are powerful huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, bobzy said: Why are people going on about his coaching approach?! He’s been sacked for bullying. Not “hard coaching”. Not “giving lads a kick up the arse”. Bullying. The publically made allegations all seem to imply that MacDonald constantly gave youngsters verbal and physical abuse. That isn’t **** coaching. Did you read what I wrote? I didn't reference any context beyond whether or not he treated everyone the same or whether he singled people out individually. The latter would constitute bullying, if he treated everyone the same then he's just an arsehole but I find it hard to believe he could have maintained his role for so long if he was a total arsehole. And you're right to say allegations, because that's all they are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Just now, lapal_fan said: Words are powerful huh? Yes, which is why you're responsible for how you use them, especially if you're in a position of care and authority. There's nothing you should be saying or doing as a coach of youngsters that should make any of them contemplate suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Just now, Keyblade said: Yes, which is why you're responsible for how you use them, especially if you're in a position of care and authority. There's nothing you should be saying or doing as a coach of youngsters that should make any of them contemplate suicide. I agree completely, who wouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: **** hell, quite honestly, this discussion is retarded. Did you think "that's unbelievably presumptuous" when I actually put "that's very presumptuous, but possible"? What a genius. Haha standard approach now isn't it. You usually try to take the moral high ground on topics but you **** up badly with that first post. You've tried to walk it back but you really can't, so this is now your level of debate.. Your arguments to try and defend this man are retarded. The fact you'd even throw out your presumptuous argument speaks volumes and displays a real ignorance to it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Did you read what I wrote? I didn't reference any context beyond whether or not he treated everyone the same or whether he singled people out individually. The latter would constitute bullying, if he treated everyone the same then he's just an arsehole but I find it hard to believe he could have maintained his role for so long if he was a total arsehole. And you're right to say allegations, because that's all they are right now. Er.... you might want to read up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Haha standard approach now isn't it. You usually try to take the moral high ground on topics but you **** up badly with that first post. You've tried to walk it back but you really can't, so this is now your level of debate.. Your arguments to try and defend this man are retarded. The fact you'd even throw out your presumptuous argument speaks volumes and displays a real ignorance to it all. I haven't defended him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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