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18 hours ago, Kingman said:

Yes articles, TBH I don't read papers as fact, It says Guinness on the side of a bus but they don't **** sell it do they.

Again, Accusations but not limited to, including negativity and constant verbal abuse!.. Give me your inside finer details how this was anyway different to Fergies hairdryer. 

The club have conducted an internal investigation, sacked K Mac and apologised to those involved. So don't say accusations to suggest it didn't happen. Pathetic. 

These were children and he was in a position of power over them. He bullied them, which led to some of them experiencing depression, suicidal thoughts and giving up on their dreams. I state again, children. 

Fergie, got angry every so often at professional adults as a way to get them to perform and motivate them. 

 

Edited by DCJonah

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Fergie chewing out grown ass adults and a youth coach bullying children under his care are hardly analogous. Ridiculous to suggest so.

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On 20/08/2019 at 22:24, cyrusr said:

As the report forms part of an employee disciplinary process, the Club is unable to provide details in public although copies of Mr Mitchell’s investigation have been provided to The FA, Premier League and statutory authorities.

Mr Mitchell appealed for individuals to come forward to give evidence and we are especially grateful to those former players who assisted him in his investigation.

Aston Villa wishes to apologise to all former players who were affected by behaviour which would not be tolerated by the Club today.

 

 

2 hours ago, Kingman said:

Strange how non of the successful players came out who made a career and life out of it

Or did they?  We'll probably never know.

I've had a far more successful career than most of my peers as a student, but I'd happily stand up and say I was treated like shit by two of my university tutors - far beyond what should've been deemed acceptable.  It's not just sour grapes that drives these things.

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Think this is along way from over . How many came foward ? . If they have proof the club did not act on this issue and it went on over along period of time . Club may have some compensation payments to effected players coming up ? These guys were minors when this happened .

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I'm genuinely really interested in reading people's views on this, it's a fascinating insight in to how the public view things, how attitudes have changed in society and where football fits in within that spectrum.

Without knowing the ins and outs of this particular case it is interesting, and perhaps worthy of discussion, to question whether historic LEGAL behaviour can be viewed in the present fairly. What was once acceptable may no longer be, but does that mean people should be punished retrospectively? Again, I stress, this isn't to do with KMac's behaviour but judging past attitudes in modern situations.

Whilst the previous paragraph may suggest some sympathy towards KM, it actually doesn't reflect my view at all. Football has always been the domain of the very worst traits in masculinity. It was what put me off playing from a very early stage; the bravado, the cockiness, the aggression, the lad culture. It's been mentioned to me that I may have even had a career in the game if I'd played/ been coached from an early age but it would have been people like KM which would have made me quit instantly.

However, the nuances of this issue then swing the discussion in the other direction again; maybe I didn't have the mental fortitude to succeed as a professional footballer/sportsman. Where is the line between pushing a player and bullying them? And who decides? Whilst I can't agree with the poster saying (or even using) the term 'snowflakes' it would be naïve to suggest there isn't a link between lack of success and the inability to deal with criticism. Therefore, lots of failed sportsman would be more inclined to feel they were bullied than successful ones who view that criticism as character building. Criticism is vital element of growth but it's only relatively recently that the term 'constructive criticism' has been used. 

This isn't really a view, more of a musing on the multitude of issues that arrive in cases such as KM. I'm a strong advocate for positivity, equality and diversity. I can't wait for the day that we have openly gay players and that Kick It Out is viewed as a historic success like Women's Suffrage. Unfortunately, I doubt that will be in my life time as football seems to be the slowest to move with the times. How can the sport I love be so resistant to progress?

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What you also have to remember this is a work situation . players being paid to train and play . Most living in digs away from family and friends at 16 . To then have to turn up to work each day to be physically and mentally abused by your bosses , who if you talk up can make you life even more misarable , must be tough to deal with . Any boss would be in trouble if they carried on like this . 

 

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I think the name calling on the previous page is pretty stupid, and embarrassing for both sides, but I can sort of see both points of view.

There have been players coming out in support of KMac previously, so he obviously wasn't just some vicious bully to the majority of the players. 

By the same token, as a coach you have to judge what each player thrives on, what makes them tick and what will make them perform better.  Some players need a kick up the arse, others need an arm round shoulder and a quiet word.  What Gareth Farrelly thought was terrible, was probably laughed off by players like Gabby etc.

The investigation has been conducted, and there was enough evidence to suggest that KMac went too far, and what he was doing did constitute bullying, which isn't acceptable, now - or in the late 90s. 

Even if 90% of the players thought KMac's methods were ok, the 10% didn't.  

There will always be players that aren't good enough in youth football though, which is why 98% of them never play first team football, so you'd imagine there is an awful lot of sadness and frustration when being let go.  

Without the details though, there's no point speculating exactly what he did or said, because we'll never find out unless one of the players comes out.

I'll stand by the investigation and the club and their choice to get rid. 

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17 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I find it weird that bullying is being equated to “giving a kick up the arse”. It isn’t that at all. That people are brushing this off as old school methods is **** bizarre. 

Yea, that's not what I said (contextually). 

Edited by lapal_fan

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4 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

I think the name calling on the previous page is pretty stupid, and embarrassing for both sides, but I can sort of see both points of view.

There have been players coming out in support of KMac previously, so he obviously wasn't just some vicious bully to the majority of the players. 

By the same token, as a coach you have to judge what each player thrives on, what makes them tick and what will make them perform better.  Some players need a kick up the arse, others need an arm round shoulder and a quiet word.  What Gareth Farrelly thought was terrible, was probably laughed off by players like Gabby etc.

The investigation has been conducted, and there was enough evidence to suggest that KMac went too far, and what he was doing did constitute bullying, which isn't acceptable, now - or in the late 90s. 

Even if 90% of the players thought KMac's methods were ok, the 10% didn't.  

There will always be players that aren't good enough in youth football though, which is why 98% of them never play first team football, so you'd imagine there is an awful lot of sadness and frustration when being let go.  

Without the details though, there's no point speculating exactly what he did or said, because we'll never find out unless one of the players comes out.

I'll stand by the investigation and the club and their choice to get rid. 

You are assuming that all K Mac did was use his methods and some didn't like it. Embarrassing. 

The man has been sacked after allegations of bullying and an internal investigation. Players who have suffered with depression and suicidal thoughts have had an apology from the club. I think some need to go and check what the word bullying means. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, bobzy said:

I find it weird that bullying is being equated to “giving a kick up the arse”. It isn’t that at all. That people are brushing this off as old school methods is **** bizarre. 

This 100% 

I imagine it's because it's villa. Which makes it so much more pathetic. 

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15 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You are assuming that all K Mac did was use his methods and some didn't like it. Embarrassing. 

The man has been sacked after allegations of bullying and an internal investigation. Players who have suffered with depression and suicidal thoughts have had an apology from the club. I think some need to go and check what the word bullying means. 

 

 

Nah I'm not.

Oooh, do I get to add a word now, to try and have some sort of superiority? 

Weird behavior. 

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1 minute ago, lapal_fan said:

Nah I'm not.

Oooh, do I get to add a word now, to try and have some sort of superiority? 

Weird behavior. 

Well that's what you've posted. So yes weird behaviour indeed. 

I liked the bit about people not making it and being disappointed and frustrated. What on earth has that got to do with anything? Or are you implying this has led to people making accusations? 

 

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Just now, DCJonah said:

Well that's what you've posted. So yes weird behaviour indeed. 

I liked the bit about people not making it and being disappointed and frustrated. What on earth has that got to do with anything? Or are you implying this has led to people making accusations? 

 

"The investigation has been conducted, and there was enough evidence to suggest that KMac went too far, and what he was doing did constitute bullying, which isn't acceptable, now - or in the late 90s." - is what I said. 

The other point you're picking up incorrectly, is that even though to some players his methods were bullying, to other players it was just "his way", hence the support from ex-players.  I don't doubt that he could have just been out and out nasty to certain players though.  

I'm not underestimating the affect KMac has had on the mental or physical state of some players, on the evidence of the investigation the club have determined there WAS a problem, so I fully support their decision to get him out.

My point on players being let go wasn't anything to with KMac specifically either, it was more an observation that 1000s of players come through academies and very few make it, so there is a natural hierarchy, bravado, winners and losers type culture which is savage and caveman-esque.  Some people can deal with that, others can't.  I'm not excusing KMac's behavior, because as I've said, the report says he was a bully. 

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1 minute ago, lapal_fan said:

"The investigation has been conducted, and there was enough evidence to suggest that KMac went too far, and what he was doing did constitute bullying, which isn't acceptable, now - or in the late 90s." - is what I said. 

The other point you're picking up incorrectly, is that even though to some players his methods were bullying, to other players it was just "his way", hence the support from ex-players.  I don't doubt that he could have just been out and out nasty to certain players though.  

I'm not underestimating the affect KMac has had on the mental or physical state of some players, on the evidence of the investigation the club have determined there WAS a problem, so I fully support their decision to get him out.

My point on players being let go wasn't anything to with KMac specifically either, it was more an observation that 1000s of players come through academies and very few make it, so there is a natural hierarchy, bravado, winners and losers type culture which is savage and caveman-esque.  Some people can deal with that, others can't.  I'm not excusing KMac's behavior, because as I've said, the report says he was a bully. 

You did and then followed it with.

"Even if 90% of the players thought KMac's methods were ok, the 10% didn't"

Which clearly implies it was his methods and some didn't think they were ok. Not that he actually bullied certain children. Coaches may have hard methods to try and get the best from their players. There seems to be confusion as to this and bullying. The bullying isn't a method to get the best from people. It's picking on vulnerable people. Kids don't suffer from depression and have suicidal thoughts because their coach, who wants the best for them, used some hard methods.  

It's very odd that you include a detailed point about kids who don't make it, yet it has no relation to the actual topic. Again, it certainly reads as though you think that not making it has played a part in all this for some. 

 

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2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You did and then followed it with.

"Even if 90% of the players thought KMac's methods were ok, the 10% didn't"

Which clearly implies it was his methods and some didn't think they were ok. Not that he actually bullied certain children. Coaches may have hard methods to try and get the best from their players. There seems to be confusion as to this and bullying. The bullying isn't a method to get the best from people. It's picking on vulnerable people. Kids don't suffer from depression and have suicidal thoughts because their coach, who wants the best for them, used some hard methods.  

It's very odd that you include a detailed point about kids who don't make it, yet it has no relation to the actual topic. Again, it certainly reads as though you think that not making it has played a part in all this for some. 

 

meh, whatever.  Bored now.

Jay In Betweeners GIF - Jay InBetweeners Clunge GIFs

 

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2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

meh, whatever.  Bored now.

Jay In Betweeners GIF - Jay InBetweeners Clunge GIFs

 

Offers a defence of a man sacked for bullying kids

Imply kids failing to make it is part of the problem.

Post a stupid gif when called out on it.

Stellar work in this thread. You've got to feel proud to get that in over a few hours in the day.

Not surprised.

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That escalated quicker than one of K-Macs 'pep talks'

 

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