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16 hours ago, VillaChris said:

I've said for a long time with our youths is we simply don't send them on loan at the right times for their development compared to many other clubs. Guys like O'Hare and Hepburn-Murphy have been hyped up for 2-3 seasons and yet we still don't know if they're any good. Why we didn't loan out O'Hare to league 1 in January is totally beyond me. If he'd gone to a team there and done well he'd have come back ready to get some minutes in our team.

Agree completely. The u23 league is a complete waste of time. As much as i moan about Grealish from time to time he is one recent example of loans working well at the right time. Shipped off to Notts County he managed nearly a full season and had his best ever season goals/assists wise. He should probably have stayed there another year or done something in the championship the following season rather than being in and out of out shower of shite for the next 2 years  but that season on loan will have done him far more good than kicking the ball around a bunch of other kids in empty stadiums.

Just go out and play some games that actually matter, Hell even a game for Nuneaton/Solihull/Telford/Kidderminster every week would be far better than the current youth leagues

Edited by LakotaDakota
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/20/aston-villa-bullying-allegations-tony-mcandrew-kevin-macdonald-players

'Being released was like a relief’: more players allege Aston Villa bullying

More players coming forward now. No smoke without fire. Obviously the investigation needs completing first but I hope his days are numbered at Villa now. He's like a bad smell lingering around the club. I'm sure the new owners will want him gone as well. 

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Does it not bother his more ardent defenders on here that no other* football club's youth coaches are repeatedly accused of serious bullying in the national media? Seems to me to cut across some of the arguments suggesting that his accusers are pathetic weeds who couldn't handle the masculinisation process. 

*I guess Graham Rix has been, but as I understand that was more to do with racism than general bullying. 

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16 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Does it not bother his more ardent defenders on here that no other* football club's youth coaches are repeatedly accused of serious bullying in the national media? Seems to me to cut across some of the arguments suggesting that his accusers are pathetic weeds who couldn't handle the masculinisation process. 

*I guess Graham Rix has been, but as I understand that was more to do with racism than general bullying. 

Peter Beardsley has been accused multiple times at Newcastle and has been suspended a few times

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We have a reputation for having a decent youth system that has brought a lot of players through.

Here's a question: Is it actually any good for a club of our size, status and catchment area?

Successes

I see a few definite success stories over the last 20 years: Jack, Gabby,  Steven Davis, Darius Vassell, Lee Hendrie, Jlloyd (RIP)... I would say Gareth Barry, who was pick of the bunch, but we picked him up age 16, so not sure what that says about the youth setup.

The ones who got away

We then have a couple of top quality, title-winning players who broke into the first team, but didn't really show their class until they left: Gary Cahill, Marc Albrighton. I've always thought those two players reflect very badly on the setup at Villa. Losing a talented, hardworking, popular Villa fan in Albrighton on the cheap was the kind of thing only a badly run club can do.

The squad players

Then we have some players who are / were low PL / high Championship regulars: Ciaran Clark, DJ Campbell, Barry Bannan, Andi Weimann, Craig Gardner, Boaz Myhill, Agent Ridgewell, maybe Nathan Baker. None of these lads achieved anything at Villa.

The wasted talent

And then we have loads of disappointments... who remembers how good Nathan Delfouneso was meant to be? Or Gary Gardner? The Moore brothers, Samir Carruthers... We were top half Premier League and talking about this talent coming through.

Look at the clubs we used to compare ourselves with... Everton aren't even the main club in their city and they've produced Rooney, Barkley, Tom Davies, Rodwell, Richard Dunne, Franny Jeffers, Tony Hibbert, Leon Osman over the same period. I can't even bring myself to do the same research on Spurs. Or even Southampton, who we used to look down upon.

Is this really a story of a big, well financed club with a great youth system? Or does the following story ring true: that we found a lot of decent prospects, didn't have a system for them to grow up in, didn't develop players well technically, didn't develop them as well-rounded people... that they didn't enjoy being here, and unless they moved on (usually underpriced) they didn't fulfil their potential? Even our successes haven't been the best at looking after themselves (fancy a night out with Hendrie, Gabby and Jack?).

I wonder if our reputation for developing youth has more to do with players like Young, Milner, Delph, Barry, Hitzlsperger who signed young and made their names here (now Tammy, Tuanzebe, etc. in similar boat).

The future

The good news is Christian Purslow seems to have a long-term plan. I hope it doesn't involve bitter old dinosaurs calling young boys c***s twenty times a day and toughening them up with two footers. The game isn't played like that anymore!

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4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Does it not bother his more ardent defenders 

I haven’t seen anyone be an ardent defender of KMac, I’ve seen people who have given benefit of doubt or treat as innocent until proven guilty.

I’d also argue that if he is found guilty, it will open up cases about a lot of older coaches from other clubs.

2 hours ago, KentVillan said:

We have a reputation for having a decent youth system that has brought a lot of players through.

Here's a question: Is it actually any good for a club of our size, status and catchment area?

Successes

I see a few definite success stories over the last 20 years: Jack, Gabby,  Steven Davis, Darius Vassell, Lee Hendrie, Jlloyd (RIP)... I would say Gareth Barry, who was pick of the bunch, but we picked him up age 16, so not sure what that says about the youth setup.

The ones who got away

We then have a couple of top quality, title-winning players who broke into the first team, but didn't really show their class until they left: Gary Cahill, Marc Albrighton. I've always thought those two players reflect very badly on the setup at Villa. Losing a talented, hardworking, popular Villa fan in Albrighton on the cheap was the kind of thing only a badly run club can do.

The squad players

Then we have some players who are / were low PL / high Championship regulars: Ciaran Clark, DJ Campbell, Barry Bannan, Andi Weimann, Craig Gardner, Boaz Myhill, Agent Ridgewell, maybe Nathan Baker. None of these lads achieved anything at Villa.

The wasted talent

And then we have loads of disappointments... who remembers how good Nathan Delfouneso was meant to be? Or Gary Gardner? The Moore brothers, Samir Carruthers... We were top half Premier League and talking about this talent coming through.

Look at the clubs we used to compare ourselves with... Everton aren't even the main club in their city and they've produced Rooney, Barkley, Tom Davies, Rodwell, Richard Dunne, Franny Jeffers, Tony Hibbert, Leon Osman over the same period. I can't even bring myself to do the same research on Spurs. Or even Southampton, who we used to look down upon.

Is this really a story of a big, well financed club with a great youth system? Or does the following story ring true: that we found a lot of decent prospects, didn't have a system for them to grow up in, didn't develop players well technically, didn't develop them as well-rounded people... that they didn't enjoy being here, and unless they moved on (usually underpriced) they didn't fulfil their potential? Even our successes haven't been the best at looking after themselves (fancy a night out with Hendrie, Gabby and Jack?).

I wonder if our reputation for developing youth has more to do with players like Young, Milner, Delph, Barry, Hitzlsperger who signed young and made their names here (now Tammy, Tuanzebe, etc. in similar boat).

The future

The good news is Christian Purslow seems to have a long-term plan. I hope it doesn't involve bitter old dinosaurs calling young boys c***s twenty times a day and toughening them up with two footers. The game isn't played like that anymore!

Every club has players that looked very promising at youth only to fall by the way side, there are many mitigating circumstances that’s surround a player and their development. 

Your groupings are a little strange, you put Clark in the squad section even though he’s still playing at premiership level, but then compare him to the likes of Jeffers who had probably one decent season (his first) at the top level. You then list other players at Everton many of whom have had fairly average careers (Rooney aside), no better than our academy graduates. 

You also talk about Everton and not being the main club in the area, but neglect to mention how few players Liverpool have brought through in that time, Gerrard and carragher the only ones who have made a good career.

Yes we could bring more through, but then so could every club. Unfortunately, the way football is heading, the clubs at the top end will have the opportunity to bring through better players because they buy any youth players with high potential at a younger age, these players are then put on a large contracts without achieving anything (Arsenal with daniel Crowley as an example).

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1 hour ago, Wezbid said:

I don't understand how he was put back in charge of the U23's after already being found guilty in another investigation by the Premier League. 

On the face of it, that was shocking and the club’s actions should be investigated as well.

Seems a bit like just moving the priest to another parish when allegations of abuse are made.

Edited by briny_ear
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I think the moving to the U23s was basically them not showing that they are not allowing him to work with younger footballers but ensuring they are keeping him in a job.

The more you read the worse it gets tbh, I thought it was initially a  few with an axe to grind, but the more you read the worse it gets.

Sound like thoroughly awful people, nobody should be made to feel this way.

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