CosmicVillan Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 16 hours ago, VillaChris said: Why we didn't loan out O'Hare to league 1 in January is totally beyond me. Wasn't he injured ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, VillaChris said: I've said for a long time with our youths is we simply don't send them on loan at the right times for their development compared to many other clubs. Guys like O'Hare and Hepburn-Murphy have been hyped up for 2-3 seasons and yet we still don't know if they're any good. Why we didn't loan out O'Hare to league 1 in January is totally beyond me. If he'd gone to a team there and done well he'd have come back ready to get some minutes in our team. Agree completely. The u23 league is a complete waste of time. As much as i moan about Grealish from time to time he is one recent example of loans working well at the right time. Shipped off to Notts County he managed nearly a full season and had his best ever season goals/assists wise. He should probably have stayed there another year or done something in the championship the following season rather than being in and out of out shower of shite for the next 2 years but that season on loan will have done him far more good than kicking the ball around a bunch of other kids in empty stadiums. Just go out and play some games that actually matter, Hell even a game for Nuneaton/Solihull/Telford/Kidderminster every week would be far better than the current youth leagues Edited December 18, 2018 by LakotaDakota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 7 hours ago, CosmicVillan said: Wasn't he injured ? Don't think so. He played against Peterborough in the cup so could've been loaned out then unless he got injury soon afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Bruce blocked it because he may have for one game being needed to make up the numbers on the bench. The cretin. Another self serving manager putting his own interests above the good of the club. Being saying it for 18 months, get the kid out on **** loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney_avfc Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/20/aston-villa-bullying-allegations-tony-mcandrew-kevin-macdonald-players 'Being released was like a relief’: more players allege Aston Villa bullying More players coming forward now. No smoke without fire. Obviously the investigation needs completing first but I hope his days are numbered at Villa now. He's like a bad smell lingering around the club. I'm sure the new owners will want him gone as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Read that piece which if true would suggest he’s ruined lots of players, him and McAndrew are better off gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Doesn’t sound good. Incredibly fair point r.e: number of players that have come through, too. Such a shame. I detest bullying so would hope the club sorts this out properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Disgusting behaviour. Wonder if more will know feel confident in coming forward. Get rid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 21, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 21, 2018 Sounds like the club have done the right thing and removed him from coaching duties while they conduct an investigation. Maybe we'll get Sid back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Does it not bother his more ardent defenders on here that no other* football club's youth coaches are repeatedly accused of serious bullying in the national media? Seems to me to cut across some of the arguments suggesting that his accusers are pathetic weeds who couldn't handle the masculinisation process. *I guess Graham Rix has been, but as I understand that was more to do with racism than general bullying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 What a nasty pair. Wonder if Karsa and that other berk tried similar stuff with the first team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Does it not bother his more ardent defenders on here that no other* football club's youth coaches are repeatedly accused of serious bullying in the national media? Seems to me to cut across some of the arguments suggesting that his accusers are pathetic weeds who couldn't handle the masculinisation process. *I guess Graham Rix has been, but as I understand that was more to do with racism than general bullying. Peter Beardsley has been accused multiple times at Newcastle and has been suspended a few times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 We have a reputation for having a decent youth system that has brought a lot of players through. Here's a question: Is it actually any good for a club of our size, status and catchment area? Successes I see a few definite success stories over the last 20 years: Jack, Gabby, Steven Davis, Darius Vassell, Lee Hendrie, Jlloyd (RIP)... I would say Gareth Barry, who was pick of the bunch, but we picked him up age 16, so not sure what that says about the youth setup. The ones who got away We then have a couple of top quality, title-winning players who broke into the first team, but didn't really show their class until they left: Gary Cahill, Marc Albrighton. I've always thought those two players reflect very badly on the setup at Villa. Losing a talented, hardworking, popular Villa fan in Albrighton on the cheap was the kind of thing only a badly run club can do. The squad players Then we have some players who are / were low PL / high Championship regulars: Ciaran Clark, DJ Campbell, Barry Bannan, Andi Weimann, Craig Gardner, Boaz Myhill, Agent Ridgewell, maybe Nathan Baker. None of these lads achieved anything at Villa. The wasted talent And then we have loads of disappointments... who remembers how good Nathan Delfouneso was meant to be? Or Gary Gardner? The Moore brothers, Samir Carruthers... We were top half Premier League and talking about this talent coming through. Look at the clubs we used to compare ourselves with... Everton aren't even the main club in their city and they've produced Rooney, Barkley, Tom Davies, Rodwell, Richard Dunne, Franny Jeffers, Tony Hibbert, Leon Osman over the same period. I can't even bring myself to do the same research on Spurs. Or even Southampton, who we used to look down upon. Is this really a story of a big, well financed club with a great youth system? Or does the following story ring true: that we found a lot of decent prospects, didn't have a system for them to grow up in, didn't develop players well technically, didn't develop them as well-rounded people... that they didn't enjoy being here, and unless they moved on (usually underpriced) they didn't fulfil their potential? Even our successes haven't been the best at looking after themselves (fancy a night out with Hendrie, Gabby and Jack?). I wonder if our reputation for developing youth has more to do with players like Young, Milner, Delph, Barry, Hitzlsperger who signed young and made their names here (now Tammy, Tuanzebe, etc. in similar boat). The future The good news is Christian Purslow seems to have a long-term plan. I hope it doesn't involve bitter old dinosaurs calling young boys c***s twenty times a day and toughening them up with two footers. The game isn't played like that anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Does it not bother his more ardent defenders I haven’t seen anyone be an ardent defender of KMac, I’ve seen people who have given benefit of doubt or treat as innocent until proven guilty. I’d also argue that if he is found guilty, it will open up cases about a lot of older coaches from other clubs. 2 hours ago, KentVillan said: We have a reputation for having a decent youth system that has brought a lot of players through. Here's a question: Is it actually any good for a club of our size, status and catchment area? Successes I see a few definite success stories over the last 20 years: Jack, Gabby, Steven Davis, Darius Vassell, Lee Hendrie, Jlloyd (RIP)... I would say Gareth Barry, who was pick of the bunch, but we picked him up age 16, so not sure what that says about the youth setup. The ones who got away We then have a couple of top quality, title-winning players who broke into the first team, but didn't really show their class until they left: Gary Cahill, Marc Albrighton. I've always thought those two players reflect very badly on the setup at Villa. Losing a talented, hardworking, popular Villa fan in Albrighton on the cheap was the kind of thing only a badly run club can do. The squad players Then we have some players who are / were low PL / high Championship regulars: Ciaran Clark, DJ Campbell, Barry Bannan, Andi Weimann, Craig Gardner, Boaz Myhill, Agent Ridgewell, maybe Nathan Baker. None of these lads achieved anything at Villa. The wasted talent And then we have loads of disappointments... who remembers how good Nathan Delfouneso was meant to be? Or Gary Gardner? The Moore brothers, Samir Carruthers... We were top half Premier League and talking about this talent coming through. Look at the clubs we used to compare ourselves with... Everton aren't even the main club in their city and they've produced Rooney, Barkley, Tom Davies, Rodwell, Richard Dunne, Franny Jeffers, Tony Hibbert, Leon Osman over the same period. I can't even bring myself to do the same research on Spurs. Or even Southampton, who we used to look down upon. Is this really a story of a big, well financed club with a great youth system? Or does the following story ring true: that we found a lot of decent prospects, didn't have a system for them to grow up in, didn't develop players well technically, didn't develop them as well-rounded people... that they didn't enjoy being here, and unless they moved on (usually underpriced) they didn't fulfil their potential? Even our successes haven't been the best at looking after themselves (fancy a night out with Hendrie, Gabby and Jack?). I wonder if our reputation for developing youth has more to do with players like Young, Milner, Delph, Barry, Hitzlsperger who signed young and made their names here (now Tammy, Tuanzebe, etc. in similar boat). The future The good news is Christian Purslow seems to have a long-term plan. I hope it doesn't involve bitter old dinosaurs calling young boys c***s twenty times a day and toughening them up with two footers. The game isn't played like that anymore! Every club has players that looked very promising at youth only to fall by the way side, there are many mitigating circumstances that’s surround a player and their development. Your groupings are a little strange, you put Clark in the squad section even though he’s still playing at premiership level, but then compare him to the likes of Jeffers who had probably one decent season (his first) at the top level. You then list other players at Everton many of whom have had fairly average careers (Rooney aside), no better than our academy graduates. You also talk about Everton and not being the main club in the area, but neglect to mention how few players Liverpool have brought through in that time, Gerrard and carragher the only ones who have made a good career. Yes we could bring more through, but then so could every club. Unfortunately, the way football is heading, the clubs at the top end will have the opportunity to bring through better players because they buy any youth players with high potential at a younger age, these players are then put on a large contracts without achieving anything (Arsenal with daniel Crowley as an example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 More allegations dont look good for either one..If this is True then both should be sacked and never allowed back. I dont like.bullies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wezbid Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) I don't understand how he was put back in charge of the U23's after already being found guilty in another investigation by the Premier League. Edited December 21, 2018 by Wezbid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Wezbid said: I don't understand what how he was put back in charge of the U23's after already being found guilty in another investigation by the Premier League. Nor me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wezbid said: I don't understand how he was put back in charge of the U23's after already being found guilty in another investigation by the Premier League. On the face of it, that was shocking and the club’s actions should be investigated as well. Seems a bit like just moving the priest to another parish when allegations of abuse are made. Edited December 21, 2018 by briny_ear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I think the moving to the U23s was basically them not showing that they are not allowing him to work with younger footballers but ensuring they are keeping him in a job. The more you read the worse it gets tbh, I thought it was initially a few with an axe to grind, but the more you read the worse it gets. Sound like thoroughly awful people, nobody should be made to feel this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just read some of the articles. If I was in the shoes of some these players who I assume are a lot older now. I’d be paying Mr MacDonald and Mr Macandrew a little visit. Maybe they are a lot more forgiving then I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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