Niall Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Someone criticizing you or saying you are not good enough isn't bullying, How are you supposed to cope being a professional footballer in the public eye if you can't handle getting shouted at by a manager/coach from time to time He was 20 and depressed,and feeling exhausted despite peak fitness due to the mental trauma caused by MacD'S archaic coaching methods. Being told you are useless and a c++t etc. is hardly the ideal environment to nurture young talent. Anyway, have you even read the article The Guardian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Someone criticizing you or saying you are not good enough isn't bullying, How are you supposed to cope being a professional footballer in the public eye if you can't handle getting shouted at by a manager/coach from time to time Right. So you were there and witnessed it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Right. So you were there and witnessed it all? Mate, do you not realise that the same sentence could be levelled at you and others in opposite? You all seem very sure that it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 30 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Someone criticizing you or saying you are not good enough isn't bullying, How are you supposed to cope being a professional footballer in the public eye if you can't handle getting shouted at by a manager/coach from time to time Private Pyle... You are a worthless piece of s*1t! (bit of bantz from Sgt Hartman ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Right. So you were there and witnessed it all? And you did of course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Forget the allegations. The club need to do their own review and then act how they feel is appropriate. I personally couldn’t give two shits about who is in charge of the reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted December 13, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 13, 2018 38 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Sorry, But how is this even in the same stratosphere for comparison? I've got to say these are the reasons I try to stay out of debates like this in general, as undoubtedly the ACTUAL issue and allegation gets blurred. We've gone from alleged and perceived "bullying/rough coaching" of young players by a coach. To comparing child molestation and rape ffs. Ironically, I actually find these tactics are usually used to "bully" people into feeling bad about their own views on particular situations. No matter how reasonable. It's not comparing the allegations, it's comparing the mindset that the allegations should be dismissed because it was long time ago and that's just what happened back then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Guess none of this is true then? Oh, & yes he was there and saw everything.... A handful of people out of the hundreds/thousands that have been through the system complaining that they didn't like the way someone treated them doesn't mean he is the worlds biggest bastard. Most people simply are not cut out for life as a professional footballer. Gary Cahill : https://readastonvilla.com/2018/11/28/gary-cahill-reflects-on-time-at-villa/ Cahill, now 31, made his senior debut for the club in 2005 before going on to make a further 30 appearances in claret and blue before sealing a move to Bolton Wanderers in January 2008. There are numerous coaches who have helped me along the way. But when I went to Villa there was Gordon Cowans, who a lot of people are aware of, Tony McAndrew and Kevin MacDonald. Those three looked after me from 16 up until the reserves and were a big influence on the way I saw football. It wasn’t always rosy; they were strict and quite hard on us, but you appreciate that more the older you get. It was just what they demanded through work and the sessions. They wanted us to play in the right way, at a fast tempo, and we had a lot of success. Over a period of three or four years the amount of players they produced was frightening: Peter Whittingham, Jamie Ward, Liam Ridgewell, Steven Davis, Gabby Agbonlahor, Craig Gardner, there were loads who came through. That’s down to the recruitment and the coaching we had which was phenomenal. Edited December 13, 2018 by LakotaDakota 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said: It's not comparing the allegations, it's comparing the mindset that the allegations should be dismissed because it was long time ago and that's just what happened back then. I totally got that, but in my view the manipulation remains the same. I don't think anybody is saying it should be dismissed, but the current culture no longer applies an "innocent until proven guilty" structure. The court of public opinion/social media has destroyed your life no matter the outcome. I've seen it many a time. Do you know how many of these high profile cases of "sexual assault" and rape which suddenly popped up 25 years later have been proven to be a farce? No one will remember that though, all they will remember is the label, the accusations, and false comparisons to ACTUAL victims of abuse. Just a very strange and sad climate all round. As usual I feel truth is somewhere in the middle. It is hard for me to imagine that Kevin McDonald has been "bullying" and torturing kids for decades and they said nothing out of fear as if we were the mafia, AND that our club has just let it happen. It's Football, not bootcamp, these kids WANT to play football, just like with several other professions and/or sports maybe some of them just aren't cut out for the rough and tumble of it, maybe not disciplined enough, or too sensitive? I'm not discounting the fact that it may have hurt or "broken" a few, but is that an issue for the Coach/kid to deal with, or is it something for the parents to address? What about all the kids the system and coach have successfully brought through for decades? Some of them probably just aren't cut out for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Mate, do you not realise that the same sentence could be levelled at you and others in opposite? You all seem very sure that it is true. I'm not the one claiming that multiple people who felt bullied are just too sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Guess none of this is true then? Oh, & yes he was there and saw everything.... A handful of people out of the hundreds/thousands that have been through the system complaining that they didn't like the way someone treated them doesn't mean he is the worlds biggest bastard. Most people simply are not cut out for life as a professional footballer. Gary Cahill : https://readastonvilla.com/2018/11/28/gary-cahill-reflects-on-time-at-villa/ Cahill, now 31, made his senior debut for the club in 2005 before going on to make a further 30 appearances in claret and blue before sealing a move to Bolton Wanderers in January 2008. There are numerous coaches who have helped me along the way. But when I went to Villa there was Gordon Cowans, who a lot of people are aware of, Tony McAndrew and Kevin MacDonald. Those three looked after me from 16 up until the reserves and were a big influence on the way I saw football. It wasn’t always rosy; they were strict and quite hard on us, but you appreciate that more the older you get. It was just what they demanded through work and the sessions. They wanted us to play in the right way, at a fast tempo, and we had a lot of success. Over a period of three or four years the amount of players they produced was frightening: Peter Whittingham, Jamie Ward, Liam Ridgewell, Steven Davis, Gabby Agbonlahor, Craig Gardner, there were loads who came through. That’s down to the recruitment and the coaching we had which was phenomenal. You literally made the post I was trying to make above for me ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Guess none of this is true then? Oh, & yes he was there and saw everything.... A handful of people out of the hundreds/thousands that have been through the system complaining that they didn't like the way someone treated them doesn't mean he is the worlds biggest bastard. Most people simply are not cut out for life as a professional footballer. Gary Cahill : https://readastonvilla.com/2018/11/28/gary-cahill-reflects-on-time-at-villa/ Cahill, now 31, made his senior debut for the club in 2005 before going on to make a further 30 appearances in claret and blue before sealing a move to Bolton Wanderers in January 2008. There are numerous coaches who have helped me along the way. But when I went to Villa there was Gordon Cowans, who a lot of people are aware of, Tony McAndrew and Kevin MacDonald. Those three looked after me from 16 up until the reserves and were a big influence on the way I saw football. It wasn’t always rosy; they were strict and quite hard on us, but you appreciate that more the older you get. It was just what they demanded through work and the sessions. They wanted us to play in the right way, at a fast tempo, and we had a lot of success. Over a period of three or four years the amount of players they produced was frightening: Peter Whittingham, Jamie Ward, Liam Ridgewell, Steven Davis, Gabby Agbonlahor, Craig Gardner, there were loads who came through. That’s down to the recruitment and the coaching we had which was phenomenal. Oh that's ok then. No one has claimed he bullied every kid he coached. Do you think every abuser attack every single person they are associated with? Just because he didn't make cahil feel suicidal doesn't mean a thing in this case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: You literally made the post I was trying to make above for me ffs. Its a terrible and weak argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 New owners, new manager, new philosophy, not sure K-Mac had real viability within the current state of affairs at the club anyway. Time to cut ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Oh, & yes he was there and saw everything.... He saw what went on between Kevin MacDonald and Gareth Farrelly? Hadn't Farrelly left Villa three years before Cahill joined the youth set up? Edited December 13, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, maqroll said: New owners, new manager, new philosophy, not sure K-Mac had real viability within the current state of affairs at the club anyway. Time to cut ties. What i WILL agree with , is that this is bad publicity for the club and probably better do so in the grand scheme of things. Especially in this climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Where do you start in a matter like this? As mentioned above Gary Cahil had nothing but good words for him he managed to forge a good career for him self from Kmac’s guidance unfortunately its the latter for the alleged victim, There have been plenty of bad things happening behind the scenes in football over the years , but you can only go on facts which remains to be seen/heard, My Grandfather was beaten with a Kane when he was in school for getting his time tables wrong, and got called all kinds of names under the sun by a sergant and in his teens he would suggest the guy is being sensitive, but times change and coaches need to move on with it I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted December 13, 2018 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2018 I think he's undeniably an incredible coach of young footballers, there are huge numbers of players across the league that won't hear a bad word about him (Gabby's instagram this evening describes him as a "special man" and asks him to stay strong) there are large numbers of players who've worked with him who believe that his coaching style made them better and who appreciate him as a person as much as a coach. Within that, there has been more than one accusation of bullying, more than one player who said that working under him made them feel on the edge of depression, or at least that they weren't being treated fairly. There are tales of young men, far from their families, being screamed at and made to feel like their dream has become a nightmare. There's a reasonable amount of agreement between the two groups on his coaching style - he's dictatorial, he brings "tough love", he's not neccessarily easy to work with. Some believe that made them better, some have gone on to admire him for it, some believe it was bullying, some hate him for it. It's certainly possible that all of them could be right. Young men need different things from the authority figures in their lives. Football clubs on the other hand need warriors who can stand up to the Holte End, to the Tilton, to the Gallowgate, to the South stand at Elland Road, it needs them tested - it's a cruel thing. We do that, we're complicit. The role of youth coaches is to both toughen and support those young men on that journey, to be both the iron fist and the comforting shoulder - it's a balance even at the best of times. Now that balance is different to abuse, it's different to incidents where the wrong lines are crossed, where what's happening is more than tough, more than the questioning of character - these are things that need to be investigated, and investigated by people who understand the environment - what normal looks like at a football academy, what good looks like - what actually took place - I'm happy to let those investigations take place before I start laying into him on the evidence of a newspaper article. 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 investigate, determine the facts and then act. Until that's done, I'll reserve judgement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Im sorry, think i must have missed the bit where he was actually guilty of something, rather than (as yet) unproven allegations, yet on here he is being hung drawn and quartered by some, and being called lots of nasty words.... ironically by those complainig about bullying and also in some cases those who were massively angry about insults being used against Bruce. I remember that people used to be innocent until poven guilty, but it seems "social media justice" is king now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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