New manager

[Mr_Dogg]

 

Because he coached at Lyon from 2003 then took assistant managers job under houllier, after that he became their head of youth development before taking Lyon job in 2011 and eventually left in 2014.

 

7 years an assistant too. 3 as head coach.

 

Because he only went into management 4 years ago...

Thanks, I can use wiki too. The question is why? Why didn't he go into management 5 years earlier? 

I'm not against the appointment but he not only has no PL experience, he has little experience at all. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mr_Dogg

[SeanO]

With the squad we have SAF would struggle to put together a decent team capable of winning enough games to stay up. We just can't score enough, I had never seen Gestede before he joined us and tbh I still wish I hadn't. 

Whomever the new manager is they will struggle, in all likelihood he will look at players like Lescott, Gabby, Richardson and CNZ and think they are the old heads we need. They are not and all the while the new manager tries to find a working formation with this squad we will continue to lose games.

I truly fear even after only 10 games we are too far gone, January is almost impossible to buy good players besides the tosser who owns us isn't going to spend any money even if they were available.

I will however support the new manager as it will not his fault that we are in the position we find ourselves. I lay that blame fully at Randy Lerners door.

[hippo]

Why does a 49 year old only have 3 years managerial experience? That's my concern. 

 

 

Because he coached at Lyon from 2003 then took assistant managers job under houllier, after that he became their head of youth development before taking Lyon job in 2011 and eventually left in 2014.

 

Why does a 49 year old only have 3 years managerial experience? That's my concern. 

7 years an assistant too. 3 as head coach.

 

Why does a 49 year old only have 3 years managerial experience? That's my concern. 

Because he only went into management 4 years ago...

Thanks, I can use wiki too. The question is why? Why didn't he go into management 5 years earlier? 

I'm not against the appointment but he not only has no PL experience, he has little experience at all. 

Yup - and has been pointed out that little experience he has, is at a club he knew inside out before becoming manager. 

I really don't think it will be Garde, I have little confidence in Fox and co, but I think even they will back away from this one.

[apate]

Garde is a perfect fit IMO for Villa. I cannot remember the last time we had an intelligent and tactically astute manager. He had been touted as Wengers eventual replacement and was loved at Lyon where they considered him to be their equivalent of Pep Guardiola. If he joins us, he as much chance of saving us as anyone. OK he may not be able to avoid relegation (I am not certain if anyone could) but I am confident that this guy could help Villa rise from the ashes.  For too long with notable exceptions over 20 years ago, we have "made do" with managers who either had no pedigree, maybe a good couple of seasons elsewhere or in Sherwoods case 25% of a season. We have undoubtedly had our moments with managers but a looking back to Graham Taylor first time round it shows that we have got progressively worse in picking managers

Sherwood - was probably the most tactically inept manager we ever had but sounded good and talked himself into the job.

Lambert - he did well at Norwich in the Champsionship but was he ever cut out to be a PL manager at a club that was in dire financial straits? His constant reference to "the project" illustrated that he role first and foremost was to cut the wage bill and make do with lower league players. From time to time he had good spells albeit very brief, but as we got deeper into trouble his tactics were all over the place.

McLeish - like everyone else I could never fathom why we went anywhere near him. Probably the most boring and negative manager we ever had. He did nothing at sha and managed to get them relegated - his reward? The managers job at Villa - incredible! 

MON - I will not deny that I was excited by his appointment and for a while it looked like we were going somewhere. But then it started to unravel as he loaded us with journeymen on high wages, had no depth in the squad and injuries took their toll. He was reputed to be a good man manager and had flashes of inspiration but tactics were not his strength and his legacy left us in a mess. He didn't build for the future and when the money ran out he ran away leaving us with lots of overpaid players.

O'Leary - All mouth and no trousers - he was never going to make it as a PL manager and was another one whose profile got him into the job. An egotist in the extreme he thought his career at Arsenal made him natural management material. He hadn't got a clue. 

Graham Taylor (2nd time round) - his appointment was an act of desperation by Ellis - second time round he had lost the plot. 

John Gregory - another manager that I liked as a person, Villa through and through. But his football was dour and relationship with Ellis meant it was never going to end well. Signed some good players and had he been able to get another couple I think his reign would have been longer. His biggest mistake was undervaluing and not signing Robbie Keane.

Brian Little - loved Brian as a player - one of my few real heroes. IMO he had the makings of a great Villa manager. When he joined he saved us from relegation and start to build a new squad that did extremely well achieving our two highest finishes in the PL in the last 20 years - 4th/5th while also winning the League Cup. But his big mistake was buying Collymore who in turn let him down badly. No idea why he left but think Collymores signing was his undoing and that Ellis was to blame in someway. 

Ron Atkinson - Big personality that managed to put together a hard working team with tremendous spirit that came second to Man United in the first season of the PL. But for the seven minutes extra time that Man United were given at Sheffield Wednesday he may have well won the PL for us. How different might things have then panned out for the future of our club. However  his ageing squad and relationship with Ellis meant it was never going to end well.

Joe Venglos - Our first "foreign" manager. Joe arrived after formerly managing Czechoslovakia to the quarter finals of the World Cup. A weird appointment by Ellis, Joe never managed to get us going and we finished two positions off the relegation zone. And he was off

Graham Taylor - First time round he was a great manager. In his first season he helped us get back into division one, struggled as he rebuilt in his second but in his third almost won Division one finishing second to Liverpool after often leading the league playing great football. Then England came calling and he was off. 

 

In my opinion, we have had enough of dross managers and need someone who is intelligent and can change our clubs direction - Garde if he joins us could be the one to it. Moyes, Rogers, Pearson and many of the others named offer nothing for the future beyond surviving as a second rate PL team. 

Probabley the most well thought out post in this thread.  I thank you.

[hippo]

Garde is a perfect fit IMO for Villa. I cannot remember the last time we had an intelligent and tactically astute manager. He had been touted as Wengers eventual replacement and was loved at Lyon where they considered him to be their equivalent of Pep Guardiola. If he joins us, he as much chance of saving us as anyone. OK he may not be able to avoid relegation (I am not certain if anyone could) but I am confident that this guy could help Villa rise from the ashes.  For too long with notable exceptions over 20 years ago, we have "made do" with managers who either had no pedigree, maybe a good couple of seasons elsewhere or in Sherwoods case 25% of a season. We have undoubtedly had our moments with managers but a looking back to Graham Taylor first time round it shows that we have got progressively worse in picking managers

Sherwood - was probably the most tactically inept manager we ever had but sounded good and talked himself into the job.

Lambert - he did well at Norwich in the Champsionship but was he ever cut out to be a PL manager at a club that was in dire financial straits? His constant reference to "the project" illustrated that he role first and foremost was to cut the wage bill and make do with lower league players. From time to time he had good spells albeit very brief, but as we got deeper into trouble his tactics were all over the place.

McLeish - like everyone else I could never fathom why we went anywhere near him. Probably the most boring and negative manager we ever had. He did nothing at sha and managed to get them relegated - his reward? The managers job at Villa - incredible! 

MON - I will not deny that I was excited by his appointment and for a while it looked like we were going somewhere. But then it started to unravel as he loaded us with journeymen on high wages, had no depth in the squad and injuries took their toll. He was reputed to be a good man manager and had flashes of inspiration but tactics were not his strength and his legacy left us in a mess. He didn't build for the future and when the money ran out he ran away leaving us with lots of overpaid players.

O'Leary - All mouth and no trousers - he was never going to make it as a PL manager and was another one whose profile got him into the job. An egotist in the extreme he thought his career at Arsenal made him natural management material. He hadn't got a clue. 

Graham Taylor (2nd time round) - his appointment was an act of desperation by Ellis - second time round he had lost the plot. 

John Gregory - another manager that I liked as a person, Villa through and through. But his football was dour and relationship with Ellis meant it was never going to end well. Signed some good players and had he been able to get another couple I think his reign would have been longer. His biggest mistake was undervaluing and not signing Robbie Keane.

Brian Little - loved Brian as a player - one of my few real heroes. IMO he had the makings of a great Villa manager. When he joined he saved us from relegation and start to build a new squad that did extremely well achieving our two highest finishes in the PL in the last 20 years - 4th/5th while also winning the League Cup. But his big mistake was buying Collymore who in turn let him down badly. No idea why he left but think Collymores signing was his undoing and that Ellis was to blame in someway. 

Ron Atkinson - Big personality that managed to put together a hard working team with tremendous spirit that came second to Man United in the first season of the PL. But for the seven minutes extra time that Man United were given at Sheffield Wednesday he may have well won the PL for us. How different might things have then panned out for the future of our club. However  his ageing squad and relationship with Ellis meant it was never going to end well.

Joe Venglos - Our first "foreign" manager. Joe arrived after formerly managing Czechoslovakia to the quarter finals of the World Cup. A weird appointment by Ellis, Joe never managed to get us going and we finished two positions off the relegation zone. And he was off

Graham Taylor - First time round he was a great manager. In his first season he helped us get back into division one, struggled as he rebuilt in his second but in his third almost won Division one finishing second to Liverpool after often leading the league playing great football. Then England came calling and he was off. 

 

In my opinion, we have had enough of dross managers and need someone who is intelligent and can change our clubs direction - Garde if he joins us could be the one to it. Moyes, Rogers, Pearson and many of the others named offer nothing for the future beyond surviving as a second rate PL team. 

Probabley the most well thought out post in this thread.  I thank you.

Actually Id jump at anyone who could make us survive as a second rate PL team

 

[flatty]

Remi Garde, back in my teenage years, would probably have been a manager I would have been excited at the prospect of joining us. Seeing such short odds now as it happens as the opposite effect.  Who knows if we would have been in for Big Sam if the decision to fire Sherwood had been taken earlier, but all things considered he would have been my pick for sure.

 

There aren't any "go to" managers available at the minute so I accept that perhaps any appointment will be more of a gamble than you would typically see from a team in our situation. But for me, and I hope I'm just being pessimistic, I don't think at this point in time for Villa, Garde would be a sensible appointment and would be a very big gamble. I still get the romance of appointing a manager from overseas that might bring new ideas, tactics and knowledge of players that would improve us and there may well be some managers out there that could do just that. I just think the chances of Garde being that manager are pretty slim. Granted, I don't have any insight as to his qualities but his managerial record totalling 3 years in France with one of the biggest clubs is a little underwhelming. Clearly Lyon didn't implode but nor did they make strides under Garde who probably held on to the job longer than other managers might have done given his affinity with the club.

 

For arguments sake, I wouldn't have been happy with say Neil Lennon last year. Not the best comparison perhaps but for me some similarities in that he is a manager who did a decent job with celtic, kept them doing what they were doing without pulling up too many trees but I wouldn't have been inspired at his appointment.  The PL is a different beast, we see top managers at top teams get caught out at its competiveness and understandably most take time to adjust, even seasoned PL players who have achieved some managerial success in other leagues such as solskjaer have struggled to say the least. I know that there are some other managers that have done well such as Pochettino but I would argue that our club and team is in a worse place right now and the situation is going to need wholesale changes alongside a strong, experienced manager to turn around.

 

 

Garde from what I have read and seen is touted as a manager, like Sherwood, that can work with younger players. I am positive there'll be more considered than this but it perhaps does indicate that we'll continue with the same philosophy... I think Sherwood was bang on in that we need some more experience and some quality which I just don't think is there in the current squad and January will be crucial imo. Timing wise it's all good, the new manager will have time to assess what we have pre transfer window and I hopefully backed to bring in some players that will provide balance to a squad lacking leadership and experience in key areas.

 

Of course I will be behind Garde should he join us but at this stage he wouldn't be for me.

 

 

[El-Reacho]

I was totally buzzing about the idea of Remi Garde coming until I heard that he's actually interested in taking the job. He surely can't be all he's cracked up to be...

It's miserable being a Villa fan.

[Demitri_C]

I think one of the reasons why we are looking at Garde ahead of Moyes is the structure in place. I dont think Moyes would like this format with Reilly and that Almstrek (or whatever his name is) Think Garde would be more open to working in our current structure. Would be suprised now if Garde is not manager and someone else is appointed.

[ChrisVillan]

They're not the same thing. 

 

I know but what your saying is we shouldn't point out a managers weaknesses before he  arrives.

Where as I think thats the best time to do it.

Looke if he comes and wins games I will like him. I just think thats unlikley.

What I'm saying is Sherwood is responsible for "relegating us" unless the new guy does as badly. 

[HanoiVillan]

 

Because he coached at Lyon from 2003 then took assistant managers job under houllier, after that he became their head of youth development before taking Lyon job in 2011 and eventually left in 2014.

 

7 years an assistant too. 3 as head coach.

 

Because he only went into management 4 years ago...

Thanks, I can use wiki too. The question is why? Why didn't he go into management 5 years earlier? 

I'm not against the appointment but he not only has no PL experience, he has little experience at all. 

Whether he's a good appointment or not, this 'lacking experience' argument is a bit silly. He spent ten years as part of a management team before becoming a manager. Unless he was located off-site, with his eyes and ears taped shut, I'm sure he learned plenty about managing a team by being there. Seriously, would you consider assistant managers to have no management experience in any other walk of life?

[rubberman]

Firstly - I'd have been happy with a premiership survival manager, grinding us out enough draws to get to 17th this season. But Allardyce, Pulis and it seems Moyes are unavailable,  After that it's a pretty dire choice of those have have premiership experience.

That said, given our awful position, it's going to take something pretty special to survive and I'd rather take the gamble play some enjoyable football and see where it gets us.  Imagine watching the rest of the season with none of the 'flair' players risked only to go down anyway.

I'm sure that any incoming manager will have watched our games so far and seen that but for individual mistakes (that could easily attributed to unfamiliar team set up and lack of consistent selection) and bonkers substitutions we could easily be in a safer position.  The league is crap this year - every other team has got unexpected results - and were I a manager I would be confident that I would have got us more points so far in the games we've played.  It's going to be very tough, but I really don't think we're far from getting it together with a decent tactician at the helm, in very much the position Leicester were last year.  Points were not a reflection of their talent as a team and I don't think ours are.

Bring in Garde, play with consistency and direction and I think we might yet be safe.  And even if not lets at least enjoy the ride.

[hippo]

 

Because he coached at Lyon from 2003 then took assistant managers job under houllier, after that he became their head of youth development before taking Lyon job in 2011 and eventually left in 2014.

 

7 years an assistant too. 3 as head coach.

 

Because he only went into management 4 years ago...

Thanks, I can use wiki too. The question is why? Why didn't he go into management 5 years earlier? 

I'm not against the appointment but he not only has no PL experience, he has little experience at all. 

Whether he's a good appointment or not, this 'lacking experience' argument is a bit silly. He spent ten years as part of a management team before becoming a manager. Unless he was located off-site, with his eyes and ears taped shut, I'm sure he learned plenty about managing a team by being there. Seriously, would you consider assistant managers to have no management experience in any other walk of life?

No but this is football. assistant managers don't generally go on to do well at the top job. A whole host of fergies assistants have failed. Anyway, hes managed for 3 seasons at a club he knew inside out. Its your call if you think that makes him a good bet to pull Aston Villa out of free-fall. 

[StefanAVFC]

He clearly has experience.

People who say he doesn't are just ignoring facts put in front of them.

PL experience is quite possibly the most overrated caveat when it comes to pre-judging a manager. McCleish/Lambert/Sherwood all had more PL experience than Garde and look how they turned out. I'm fed up of making up the numbers every year. I want us to take a risk with somebody who could flop massively, but IMO has a far higher ceiling than a Moyes/Allardyce/Pulis. 

It's funny. People bemoan a lack of experience but Garde has the experience of managing a young squad, with not much money and building up a team who were down in the doldrums. That experice is more important for me than managing in the PL.

[hippo]

He clearly has experience.

People who say he doesn't are just ignoring facts put in front of them.

PL experience is quite possibly the most overrated caveat when it comes to pre-judging a manager. McCleish/Lambert/Sherwood all had more PL experience than Garde and look how they turned out. I'm fed up of making up the numbers every year. I want us to take a risk with somebody who could flop massively, but IMO has a far higher ceiling than a Moyes/Allardyce/Pulis. 

It's funny. People bemoan a lack of experience but Garde has the experience of managing a young squad, with not much money and building up a team who were down in the doldrums. That experice is more important for me than managing in the PL.

Thats where your going wrong. IMO we need somebody to come in and steady the ship and get a few results now. Not some windbag who will waffle on about structures, ethos, football philosophy etc. Just make us hard to beat from November 2015 onwards.

[StefanAVFC]

'windbag'

You literally know nothing about Garde and you're writing him off as a windbag already.

Shockingly stupid.

[DCJonah]

Why does anyone want to just grind survival each year. I'd rather go down trying to do something different with Garde, than **** continue watching the shit I've seen the last 5 seasons.

[markavfc40]

They're not the same thing. 

 

I know but what your saying is we shouldn't point out a managers weaknesses before he  arrives.

Where as I think thats the best time to do it.

Looke if he comes and wins games I will like him. I just think thats unlikley.

What I'm saying is Sherwood is responsible for "relegating us" unless the new guy does as badly. 

He doesn't have to do as badly does he to not in some ways be responsible. I mean lets say he takes 27 points from 28 games it will be better than Shewood but it will have been likely that less than a point a game over a season would see you relegated anyway.

Regardless of how many managers we have this season or who is manager come the end of the season if we are indeed relegated I will be placing the majority of the blame at Lerners door. We have been in decline for 5 years and pretty much bottomed out as relegation fodder for the last 4 years and be it in poor managerial appointments, although I don't believe the managers have been the main issue, or lack of funds both in terms of transfer fees and wages, then Lerner has been ultimately responsible for it all.

[StefanAVFC]

Why does anyone want to just grind survival each year. I'd rather go down trying to do something different with Garde, than **** continue watching the shit I've seen the last 5 seasons.

Damn right.

I get that people don't want a project, but the 'project' with Lambert and Sherwood was still the same shit. Garde is something different.

[markavfc40]

Gus Poyet now in the frame and under consideration according to Sky Sports News.

[Shaw_nuff]

Garde is a perfect fit IMO for Villa. I cannot remember the last time we had an intelligent and tactically astute manager. He had been touted as Wengers eventual replacement and was loved at Lyon where they considered him to be their equivalent of Pep Guardiola. If he joins us, he as much chance of saving us as anyone. OK he may not be able to avoid relegation (I am not certain if anyone could) but I am confident that this guy could help Villa rise from the ashes.  For too long with notable exceptions over 20 years ago, we have "made do" with managers who either had no pedigree, maybe a good couple of seasons elsewhere or in Sherwoods case 25% of a season. We have undoubtedly had our moments with managers but a looking back to Graham Taylor first time round it shows that we have got progressively worse in picking managers

Sherwood - was probably the most tactically inept manager we ever had but sounded good and talked himself into the job.

Lambert - he did well at Norwich in the Champsionship but was he ever cut out to be a PL manager at a club that was in dire financial straits? His constant reference to "the project" illustrated that he role first and foremost was to cut the wage bill and make do with lower league players. From time to time he had good spells albeit very brief, but as we got deeper into trouble his tactics were all over the place.

McLeish - like everyone else I could never fathom why we went anywhere near him. Probably the most boring and negative manager we ever had. He did nothing at sha and managed to get them relegated - his reward? The managers job at Villa - incredible! 

MON - I will not deny that I was excited by his appointment and for a while it looked like we were going somewhere. But then it started to unravel as he loaded us with journeymen on high wages, had no depth in the squad and injuries took their toll. He was reputed to be a good man manager and had flashes of inspiration but tactics were not his strength and his legacy left us in a mess. He didn't build for the future and when the money ran out he ran away leaving us with lots of overpaid players.

O'Leary - All mouth and no trousers - he was never going to make it as a PL manager and was another one whose profile got him into the job. An egotist in the extreme he thought his career at Arsenal made him natural management material. He hadn't got a clue. 

Graham Taylor (2nd time round) - his appointment was an act of desperation by Ellis - second time round he had lost the plot. 

John Gregory - another manager that I liked as a person, Villa through and through. But his football was dour and relationship with Ellis meant it was never going to end well. Signed some good players and had he been able to get another couple I think his reign would have been longer. His biggest mistake was undervaluing and not signing Robbie Keane.

Brian Little - loved Brian as a player - one of my few real heroes. IMO he had the makings of a great Villa manager. When he joined he saved us from relegation and start to build a new squad that did extremely well achieving our two highest finishes in the PL in the last 20 years - 4th/5th while also winning the League Cup. But his big mistake was buying Collymore who in turn let him down badly. No idea why he left but think Collymores signing was his undoing and that Ellis was to blame in someway. 

Ron Atkinson - Big personality that managed to put together a hard working team with tremendous spirit that came second to Man United in the first season of the PL. But for the seven minutes extra time that Man United were given at Sheffield Wednesday he may have well won the PL for us. How different might things have then panned out for the future of our club. However  his ageing squad and relationship with Ellis meant it was never going to end well.

Joe Venglos - Our first "foreign" manager. Joe arrived after formerly managing Czechoslovakia to the quarter finals of the World Cup. A weird appointment by Ellis, Joe never managed to get us going and we finished two positions off the relegation zone. And he was off

Graham Taylor - First time round he was a great manager. In his first season he helped us get back into division one, struggled as he rebuilt in his second but in his third almost won Division one finishing second to Liverpool after often leading the league playing great football. Then England came calling and he was off. 

 

In my opinion, we have had enough of dross managers and need someone who is intelligent and can change our clubs direction - Garde if he joins us could be the one to it. Moyes, Rogers, Pearson and many of the others named offer nothing for the future beyond surviving as a second rate PL team. 

That Atkinson team was more than hard-working. It had an enormous amount of ability in it. Best football I've ever seen us play. We needed a cash injection to push on and Ellis wavered.