Transfer Speculation January 2016

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

I think "very good" is a stretch, but you'd assume he'll get better (he's, what, 23 or something?).

Would I want him at Villa for £12m, though?  Probably not.

I don't think 12m is that much these days. We're just used to Villa signing players for peanuts.

Gueye only cost £3m less than that, and I'd choose Shelvey over him at this point.

[GeordieVillan]

1 minute ago, romavillan said:

whilst that's true, our summer signings weren't additions to a team, they were an attempt at making a team in the first place. Now they are starting to look like there might be a team in there somewhere we would be incredibly stupid not to add 3 or 4 players at £10m a pop right now if they were available and would come. We all knwo that won't happen though. 

I don't think players such as Shelvey, Townsend and Berahino would come to us, even if we paid them stupid money. They would all rather sit on the bench at mid-table premier league teams than risk playing every week in the Championship. Our only options right now are loan players, or players at Championship teams who are unlikely to be promoted.

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

When Newcastle signed him it stunk of panic-buy to me. They took one of the main midfielders from a fellow relegation rival in the hope its somehow going to drive them up the table, and arguably paid 30-50% too much. If Shelvey is that good, then why are Swansea sitting where they are?

He was very good on Saturday, but I am of the belief that he is the kind of player who has one very good game in every 5-6 games, and in that game he can produce eye-catching passes that mask alot of failures in other games.

Saying that - couple Shelvey with some of the other signings Newcastle are rumoured to be making, and all of a sudden they have a team that could quite easily be top half of the table. It only takes 3-4 £10m players to have a massive impact on a team, which is why its such a shame that our summer signings took time to settle.

I think Newcastle were quite shrewd.

I'm borrowing from a podcast here that pointed it out, but Shelvey got suspended a few weeks back for one game, and hasn't been back in the team since. he's been out of the entire squad sometimes, yet Swansea are languishing. There's no way Shelvey shouldn't be in that team on merit.

Something may very well have happened there and Newcastle have swooped in to buy him.

I think it's good business.

[Rds1983]

35 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

While we are discussing who we aren't going to sign lets please keep it friendly and remember we are all cursed with the same affliction in supporting this rabble with the most inappropriate motto in football.

So.... Messi anyone?

To late on Messi, papers today say Bojan has convinced him to join Stoke ;-)

He says it cant be worse than the horrible place he played in Argentina as a kid.

[VillaCas]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

We will have to agree to disagree.

I simply do not subscribe to the bland theory that everything has changed in 35 years .

for sure many things have and many principles in football haven't so I do not agree in a blanket statement that everything has changed......EVERYTHING hasn't, changed, it depends on what bits you care to mention.

Leicester have proved that what was done by us 35 years ago....is still today doable....However I always believed that , way before Leicester managed to raise their Phoenix.

If you doubt my comments check my posts way back....way before Leicesters rise.

what lessons do I see that apply today.

The ability to spot talent and develop those players in to team with method and an ethos on one for all and all for one.

To not have a blinkered view that the only way to success is money....While it is a massive fast track to success only a limited amount of clubs in world football have the wherewithal and can make that work.

The rest of us have to use our industry nous (talent spotting)to try to negate the big advantage money brings.

I still think hard work and  good attitude is not a given and there are many examples we can call on to say had we had those valuable commodities things would be different for the better.

We are from different age groups, so we are bound to have different views.....but hey, we can learn from each other.

You're off with your strawman arguments again - I didn't say that "EVERYTHING has changed", I said that "football has moved on massively in the last 35 years" which it undoubtedly has.  Of course generic traits like teamwork, hard work, attitude, commitment apply just like they ever did not just to football but to almost every aspect of life.  The problem with this is that every single team would say that e.g. hard work is what is going to differentiate them. I'd imagine that every single PL works hard. These are just bland menaingless statements.

The link between Leicester and Villa of 1981 is tenuous in the extreme.  Leicester have two decent players and have ridden their luck.  It could be either that Leicester have an incredible strategy to spot talent or it could be that from time to time sheer luck will dictate that a decent player or two will turn up (we had the same luck in spotting Benteke).  What aspects of our 1981 model are Leicester employing?  Recruiting the right players? I would think that every successful team since football began would claim that one

Your next strawman is that I have "a blinkered view that the only way to success is money" - I didnt say that or anything like that.  Of course the right decisions need to made but decent investment is a huge factor in modern football

 

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Whether or not you think we should be currently preparing for life in the Championship, or think we can still survive, the fact we have yet to get any business over the line is an absolute embarrassment.

There's talk of us releasing Gabby, Sinclair back to Swansea etc... obviously speculation at this stage but I wouldn't be surprised if we end Jan with a weaker squad than at the start of the window.

Sigh.

I don't think getting those two out will weaken our squad.

[HanoiVillan]

Indeed, in terms of average quality, you'd have to assume it strengthens it. 

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

You're off with your strawman arguments again - I didn't say that "EVERYTHING has changed", I said that "football has moved on massively in the last 35 years" which it undoubtedly has.  Of course generic traits like teamwork, hard work, attitude, commitment apply just like they ever did not just to football but to almost every aspect of life.  The problem with this is that every single team would say that e.g. hard work is what is going to differentiate them. I'd imagine that every single PL works hard. These are just bland menaingless statements.

The link between Leicester and Villa of 1981 is tenuous in the extreme.  Leicester have two decent players and have ridden their luck.  It could be either that Leicester have an incredible strategy to spot talent or it could be that from time to time sheer luck will dictate that a decent player or two will turn up (we had the same luck in spotting Benteke).  What aspects of our 1981 model are Leicester employing?  Recruiting the right players? I would think that every successful team since football began would claim that one

Your next strawman is that I have "a blinkered view that the only way to success is money" - I didnt say that or anything like that.  Of course the right decisions need to made but decent investment is a huge factor in modern football

 

I think we have had decent investment, at times, but the poor recruitment had dampened the enthusiasm to steam on with it,but hey that's subjective, just my view.

its uncommon to have an owner that can continually fund poor signings that result in many cases of nil residual value.

even Bill Gates would question the ineptitude of that.

back to Leicester, I disagree with your evaluation of their squad.I think they are better players than you give them credit for and to play the high tempo game they do, you need players with ability to capitalise on that ....first touch etc.

VC.....I am well aware of the importance of investment and the critical role it plays, but in its solitary form its abstract.....we need prudent purchases with that money and talented scouts to achieve it.

success does not arrive as the result of getting one thing right.....it's many factors, but recruiting the right players in unison with breeding the right academy players is central to success.

you say every team in the country recognises that hard work and good attitude is essential, so it's meaningless.....It's one thing recognising it and quite another achieving it....it takes many aspects of management skill to get it, so for me it's far from meaningless.....as the saying goes "the best things in life are free"

For the benefit of Past successes.....Tony Barton, was our Steve Walsh, he spotted them and Roy McLaren worked on them with Ron Saunders.....even though it was 35 years ago they had  diminutive budget in comparison to Man U/Arsenal/Liverpool & even Ipswich.

further more probably some of our best buys.....Yorke/McGrath/ Platt/NIelsen were secured by Graham Taylor with prudency rather than just raw cash.

I know you old chestnut will be rolled out like "it was different then" as a convenient cop out.....but let me remind you.....without going in to much research, there are plenty of examples in the Prem of good buys at reasonable prices.

and yes, Leicester are a prime example.

Luck, we all need a bit of that, so I guess it's meaningless.

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by TRO

[useless]

58 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

Your logic is interesting, bizarre but also understandable. You don't like Leicester's success because you fear it shows our owner that operating on a tight budget can lead to success and also because it highlights our failure. My view is pretty much the exact opposite - their success demonstrates what a good manager and 2-3 top players can do in a team when combined with a lot of workhorses and players who will die for the cause - its aspirational for a club in our position, as there is no way we can compete financially with the top 4/6 clubs every year. With regard to highlighting our failure - I think you are overestimating what outsiders think of us - noone is surprised to see us where we are, I have not seen a single pundit or commentator refer to our failures as a shock or disaster or contrast us to the successes of Leicester, Stoke, West Ham or Palace - we are now seen as an historically big club who have been sliding downwards for the last 5 years at least. We are the kind of team that could easily finish in the top half (or top 8) of the table and people would not bat an eyelid, and I am now of the view that if/when we are relegated it will also not really be on the radar of many others.

I didn't say that I don't like Leicesters 'success'. As for fearing it shows Lerner that we can operate on a tight budget, well I'm pretty sure that has that's already happened and Hollis has cited them as an example of what teams can do with spending little money. What Leicester are doing at the moment is an anomaly and I suspect their eventual downfall will be as quick as their rise. We're no more going to emulate what they've done than we're going to emulate what we ourselves did in 81, on a tight budget. At best what Leicester are doing at the moment shows how much of football is psychological. I don't care what outsiders think, but if we do get relegated, I'm pretty certain that a big deal will be made of it in the press and amongst fans of other teams even if it's only to laugh at our misfortune rather than to be surprised.

[Skruff]

Kalinic done deal for 6.5m euros according to a croatian newspaper.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Skruff

[VillaCas]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think we have had decent investment, at times, but the poor recruitment had dampened the enthusiasm to steam on with it,but hey that's subjective, just my view.

its uncommon to have an owner that can continually fund poor signings that result in many cases of nil residual value.

even Bill Gates would question the ineptitude of that.

back to Leicester, I disagree with your evaluation of their squad.I think they are better players than you give them credit for and to play the high tempo game they do, you need players with ability to capitalise on that ....first touch etc.

VC.....I am well aware of the importance of investment and the critical role it plays, but in its solitary form its abstract.....we need prudent purchases with that money and talented scouts to achieve it.

success does not arrive as the result of getting one thing right.....it's many factors, but recruiting the right players in unison with breeding the right academy players is central to success.

you say every team in the country recognises that hard work and good attitude is essential, so it's meaningless.....It's one thing recognising it and quite another achieving it....it takes many aspects of management skill to get it, so for me it's far from meaningless.....as the saying goes "the best things in life are free"

For the benefit of Past successes.....Tony Barton, was our Steve Walsh, he spotted them and Roy McLaren worked on them with Ron Saunders.....even though it was 35 years ago they had  diminutive budget in comparison to Man U/Arsenal/Liverpool & even Ipswich.

further more probably some of our best buys.....Yorke/McGrath/ Platt/NIelsen were secured by Graham Taylor with prudency rather than just raw cash.

I know you old chestnut will be rolled out like "it was different then" as a convenient cop out.....but let me remind you.....without going in to much research, there are plenty of examples in the Prem of good buys at reasonable prices.

and yes, Leicester are a prime example.

Luck, we all need a bit of that, so I guess it's meaningless.

 

Your posts are quite bizarre!!   You rarely respond to the points made but rather throw in a load of platitudes and then some bland homily about how it was all great in the olden days

Of course we haven't made the most of the investment - that point is clear and is stated time and again in every thread

Of course we need to find the right players

Of course its one thing recognising that hard work is essential and quite another to do something about it - that is exactly why Hollis' bland "hard work and a great attitude" is a empty and bland statement

Not once have I said that good players couldnt be found at reasonable prices - of course they can. I gave Benteke as an example in my earlier post

This started with you claiming that Leicester have adopted the Villa model from 1981 and me asking you in what way they have done this. The model that you talk about seems to be - "we used to have a scouting network, like Leicester do and once we get the players in we used to have a coach who coached them, like Leicester" thats not a model!! Thats what has been happening a football clubs around the world for ever.

Please don't respond by telling me that we need to uncover the next Shaun Teale or Pongo Waring - I'm as convinced as you are that we have wasted fortunes on the wrong players.  My question was (and still is), what was our 1981 model and in what way have Leicester copied it - if your answer is still "recruiting the right players and coaching them well" that's hardly a model that has flown beneath the radar for 35 years

[mwj]

7 minutes ago, Skruff said:

Kalinic done deal for 6.5m euros according to a croatian bewspaper.

Also here

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/aston-villa-are-signing-hadjuk-goalie-lovre-kalinic-for-e6-5m-slobodna-dalmacija/

Edited January 19, 2016 by mwj
better link

[useless]

Crikey, hopefully we've got some money left for a striker.

[romavillan]

Maybe we'll play him as a target man?

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I think "very good" is a stretch, but you'd assume he'll get better (he's, what, 23 or something?).

Would I want him at Villa for £12m, though?  Probably not.

I don't think 12m is that much these days. We're just used to Villa signing players for peanuts.

Gueye only cost £3m less than that, and I'd choose Shelvey over him at this point.

Completely different players, Veretout is a better comparison and I prefer his upside.

Would I take Shelvey over Westwood or Gil, absolutely. He's a good player. But there's just no way he'd come here.

Do I think if we were in Newcastle's position, with a new manager on board, that we would spend £12m on a player. Absolutely, yes. I know that's an unpopular opinion. We have issues though, in that we are hovering over the trapdoor. Players don't want to come, rightly so, and we shouldn't be spending that kind of money given the strong likelyhood we will go down.

I'm annoyed we don't have a couple of decent loan signings sorted already though, a short term deal can't be THAT hard to sell. If it is, they're doing it wrong IMO.

[useless]

I hope not he probably wouldn't be any more affective than Gestede. If at all possible we need someone who's proven that they can score in the top flight. I don't know anything about him or if it's at all realistic but Ramos, mentioned yesterday, looks like he'd might be an interesting addition.

Edited January 19, 2016 by useless

[Wes]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

Crikey, hopefully we've got some money left for a striker.

Quite happy to spend that amount of money on a goalkeeper.

Ive always been of the opinion it's a good idea to spend rather large on a keeper. They have low wages in comparison to other positions and they are rarely transferred to. Arguably they are the best position you can "invest in" within a squad.

Not discounting the fact a striker would be liked, but investing in a  keeper right now when we know Guzan and Bunn are not medium or long term answers is fine by me.

[rubberman]

Kalinic...6'7" - Yes please.  Looks like he really fills the goal.  Could catch a bit more (from his youtube) rather than punching, but always seems to get it well away from danger.  He does seem a little bit 'theatrical' on his saves though.

 

Now.. striker please.

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

 

Please don't respond by telling me that we need to uncover the next Shaun Teale or Pongo Waring - I'm as convinced as you are that we have wasted fortunes on the wrong players.  My question was (and still is), what was our 1981 model and in what way have Leicester copied it - if your answer is still "recruiting the right players and coaching them well" that's hardly a model that has flown beneath the radar for 35 years

It's clear that I think your responses are equally bizarre.

what do you want me to say, give you a manuscript of the "secrets of how to create a successful football team.....as if no one has ever thought of it.

The same principles of that are what was used a hundred years ago.

The simple things you mention in frustration I.e Shaun Teale, Pong Waring, shall I say Gerry Hitchens to join in.

They are just examples of how we have bought prudently

you say the things I mention are obvious, .......but we can't do it no matter how obvious you maintain it is........your pursuit of the modern argument of investment, insinuating we don't spend enough, is equally as obvious, but not so easy to achieve either.

Ps if you think I am not answering your points to your liking bullet point them, to make it more clear.

Edited January 19, 2016 by TRO

[Dante_Lockhart]

12 minutes ago, rubberman said:

Kalinic...6'7" - Yes please.  Looks like he really fills the goal.  Could catch a bit more (from his youtube) rather than punching, but always seems to get it well away from danger.  He does seem a little bit 'theatrical' on his saves though.

 

Now.. striker please.

Love a bit of Hollywood goalkeeping!