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Gun violence in the USA


Marka Ragnos

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19 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Are you going to be the cop that goes through life giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and a free first shot? Perhaps that’s what happened the other day with shoot out with Ahmed Khan Rahami. 

 

Probably not, especially when if you do decide that you can deal with a situation without force, you get sacked.

 

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A police officer has been sacked in West Virginia for apparently failing to open fire on a man brandishing an unloaded gun.

The case will anger police brutality activists who have raised dozens of other cases in which officers have shot dead unarmed suspects and escaped punishment.

Speaking for the first time about the incident that happened in May, Stephen Mader told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette how he tried to de-escalate a dangerous situation.

He said his training helped him when he was dispatched to a domestic dispute and found Ronald Williams, 21, armed with a handgun 

“I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’ And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother.’ Then he starts flicking his wrist to get me to react to it,” he said.

“I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and de-escalate it. I knew it was a 'suicide-by-cop' situation.”

Things changed when two other officers arrived on the scene. Williams was shot dead as he walked towards them.

A police investigation concluded that the killing was justified despite the gun being unloaded.

 

 

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American police eh?  State-sponsored murderers and liars.  I'm waiting for the all-out war.  People talk about this being 'solved'.  It won't be solved.  The side doing the killing don't want it solved.  They're becoming worse.  Emboldened.  Ever more militarised.  "Blue lives matter".  Oh f**k off.  Every life matters, you cretinous f**ksticks.  When they're not killing unarmed people reading a book they're making up bogus charges for protestors and recording themselves doing it (morons).

They're currently making their bed.  I've got the popcorn in for when it kicks off properly.

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Trooper Torneo is overheard on the footage saying they could "claim" that motorists complained about a man waving a gun "but that no one wanted to stop and give a statement."

The tickets Picard got were for the alleged use of a highway by a pedestrian and for allegedly creating a public disturbance for carrying an “exposed loaded sidearm in plain view of passing motorists." The authorities eventually dismissed the tickets.

 

To make matters worse, and as if to prove their current M.O., when one of them actually follows his training, he gets sacked for NOT shooting someone.

Quote

“I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and de-escalate it. I knew it was a 'suicide-by-cop' situation.”

Things changed when two other officers arrived on the scene. Williams was shot dead as he walked towards them.

A police investigation concluded that the killing was justified despite the gun being unloaded.

 

“We’re putting you on administrative leave and we’re going to do an investigation to see if you are going to be an officer here. You put two other officers in danger.”

 

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13 minutes ago, BOF said:

American police eh?  State-sponsored murderers and liars.  I'm waiting for the all-out war.  People talk about this being 'solved'.  It won't be solved.  The side doing the killing don't want it solved.  They're becoming worse.  Emboldened.  Ever more militarised.  "Blue lives matter".  Oh f**k off.  Every life matters, you cretinous f**ksticks.  When they're not killing unarmed people reading a book they're making up bogus charges for protestors and recording themselves doing it (morons).

They're currently making their bed.  I've got the popcorn in for when it kicks off properly.

 

To make matters worse, and as if to prove their current M.O., when one of them actually follows his training, he gets sacked for NOT shooting someone.

 

Those quotes. Wow.

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Don't forget using 'civil forfeiture' laws to steal money or property from people, without accusing them of a crime. And using that money to fund the police departments. Drive through a town with a dodgy police department with any cash on you and get pulled over for the most innocuous of offences and they're probably going to rob you blind. It's obscene how blatantly corrupt they are.

 

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Just now, Davkaus said:

Don't forget using 'civil forfeiture' laws to steal money or property from people, without accusing them of a crime. And using that money to fund the police departments. Drive through a town with a dodgy police department with any cash on you and get pulled over for the most innocuous of offences and they're probably going to rob you blind. 

 

You mean like this ?

NYPD can’t count cash they’ve seized because it would crash computers

Despite multimillion dollar evidence system, NYPD have no idea how much cash they seize.

nypd-640x494.jpg

The New York City Police Department takes in millions of dollars in cash each year as evidence, often keeping the money through a procedure called civil forfeiture. But as New York City lawmakers pressed for greater transparency into how much was being seized and from whom, a department official claimed providing that information would be nearly impossible—because querying the 4-year old computer system that tracks evidence and property for the data would "lead to system crashes."

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So they're saying that a system needed to catalog evidence is so poorly implemented, that they can't actually use it for its intended purpose. Presumably they don't back it up, to restore the DB on to capable hardware, either.

They ought to shake down some more innocent citizens so that they can fund an IT department.

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13 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

So they're saying that a system needed to catalog evidence is so poorly implemented, that they can't actually use it for its intended purpose. Presumably they don't back it up, to restore the DB on to capable hardware, either.

No, they're saying they can use it for its intended purpose - taking money off people. What they're saying is that there was clearly never an intention to run any reports against the data in that system as apparently running that report will make the system crash (even though they've also spent millions on putting that data in a data warehouse, designed specifically to report against that data). :unsure:

You couldn't make it up.

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Come on guys... you seriously think that they want to properly account for all the cash they "seize"?

Pay attention to the next time you hear a quarterly report from a mega-corp and listen for the wonderful non-GAAP procedures in use. Corruption, at least in an ethical sense, abounds!

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18 hours ago, BOF said:

American police eh?  State-sponsored murderers and liars. 

It's gone beyond a state of emergency, IMO. What's been going on in the United States the last two years is looking more like Botha-era South Africa.

If I was black, I'd assume I was considered the enemy and arm myself. 

Maybe the one thing to stop gang violence is racist police violence against black people. 

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18 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Don't forget using 'civil forfeiture' laws to steal money or property from people, without accusing them of a crime. And using that money to fund the police departments. Drive through a town with a dodgy police department with any cash on you and get pulled over for the most innocuous of offences and they're probably going to rob you blind. It's obscene how blatantly corrupt they are.

 

TBF, police are on the take everywhere, it's the killing that makes ours world famous.

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3 hours ago, maqroll said:

The Washington Post's Wonkblog has reported that 78% of Americans don't own guns.

Not sure to be comforted by that, or be wary of the other 22%

 

Think I saw that it averaged out that therefore amongst gun owners the average number of guns held was 17 :mellow:

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Nah, gotta have some spares on hand for friends and relatives to use when they visit so that we can all shoot and I still have one fore each finger and toe.  They might have to settle for firing one or two at a time, though.

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Well at least this word removed has been charged with first degree manslaughter.

betty-shelby4.jpg

TULSA, Okla. (AP) — Prosecutors charged a white Oklahoma police officer with first-degree manslaughter Thursday, less than a week after she killed an unarmed black man on a city street and just days after police released graphic videos, saying in court documents the officer "reacted unreasonably."

Tulsa officer Betty Shelby fatally shot 40-year-old Terence Crutcher on Sept. 16. The affidavit filed with the charge says Shelby "reacted unreasonably by escalating the situation from a confrontation with Mr. Crutcher, who was not responding to verbal commands and was walking away from her with his hands held up, becoming emotionally involved to the point that she over reacted."

Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler said arrangements were being made for Shelby's surrender.

The swift action in Tulsa stood in contrast to Charlotte, North Carolina, where police refused under mounting pressure Thursday to release video of the shooting of another black man this week and the National Guard was called in to try to a head off a third night of violence. Demonstrations in Tulsa since Crutcher's death have been consistently peaceful.

Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the air. The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man began to reach into his SUV window.

But Crutcher's family immediately discounted that claim, saying the father of four posed no threat to the officers. They also pointed to an enlarged photo from police footage that appears to show Crutcher's window was rolled up. And police said Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

The affidavit filed Thursday also indicates that Shelby "cleared the driver's side front" of Crutcher's vehicle before she began interacting with Crutcher, suggesting she may have known there was no gun on the driver's side of the vehicle.

The affidavit says Shelby told police homicide investigators that "she was in fear for her life and thought Mr. Crutcher was going to kill her. When she began following Mr. Crutcher to the vehicle with her duty weapon drawn, she was yelling for him to stop and get on his knees repeatedly."

Crutcher was wearing "baggy clothes" but Shelby "was not able to see any weapons or bulges indicating a weapon was present," the affidavit states.

Prosecutors offer two possible theories in charging documents: that Shelby killed Crutcher impulsively in a fit of anger or that she wrongly killed him as she sought to detain him. The case first goes to a judge, who will decide whether there is enough evidence for a trial. Lee F. Berlin, a Tulsa-based defense lawyer and a former assistant district attorney in Oklahoma, said prosecutors may at some point decide to move forward with only one of the theories or could present both to jurors and let them decide.

If convicted, Shelby faces between four years and life in prison.

Crutcher's twin sister, Tiffany Crutcher, said the family was pleased the criminal charge was filed and urged a vigorous prosecution that leads to a conviction.

"Our goal now is to ensure that this never happens to another innocent citizen," Tiffany Crutcher said. "We're going to break the chains of injustice. We're going to break the chains of police brutality."

Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett said police worked quickly to provide Kunzweiler with the information he needed to decide whether to charge the officer.

"I appreciate their efforts as well as the District Attorney's usual thorough evaluation of the rules of law for which we are all accountable," Bartlett said in a written statement. "We will continue to be transparent and ensure the system carries out its responsibility to provide justice."

Shelby, who joined the Tulsa Police Department in December 2011, was en route to a domestic violence call when she encountered Crutcher's vehicle abandoned on a city street, straddling the center line. Shelby did not activate her patrol car's dashboard camera, so no footage exists of what first happened between the two before other officers arrived.

The police footage shows Crutcher approaching the driver's side of the SUV, then more officers walk up and Crutcher appears to lower his hands and place them on the vehicle. A man inside a police helicopter overhead says: "That looks like a bad dude, too. Probably on something."

Police Sgt. Dave Walker has said investigators found a vial of the drug PCP in Crutcher's vehicle. Shelby's attorney, Scott Wood, has said that Shelby completed drug-recognition expert training and thought Crutcher was acting like he might be under the influence of PCP.

Attorneys for Crutcher's family said the family didn't know whether drugs were found in the SUV, but that even if they were, it wouldn't justify the shooting.

A toxicology report could take several weeks.

Wood did not immediately return phone messages seeking comment about Shelby being charged.

In the videos, the officers surround Crutcher and he suddenly drops to the ground. A voice heard on the police radio says: "Shots fired!" The officers back away and Crutcher is left unattended on the street for about two minutes before an officer puts on medical gloves and begins to attend to him.

"The tragic circumstances surrounding the death of Mr. Crutcher are on the hearts and minds of many people in this community," Kunzweiler said. "It's important to note that despite the heightened tensions felt by all, which seemingly beg for an emotional response and reaction, our community has consistently demonstrated the willingness to respect the judicial process."

At least two dozen people gathered outside the courthouse after the district attorney announced the officer was charged. Later, a peaceful rally was held in front of City Hall. Some demonstrators expressed disappointed Shelby wasn't charged with first-degree murder, but others considered Thursday's announcement a victory.

"Today we can say without a shadow of a doubt that the system has worked for black lives," said activist Marq Lewis, an organizer of the civil rights group We the People Oklahoma, which led the rally in front of City Hall. "We are getting something done in Tulsa that no other city is getting done."

Earlier this year, a white former volunteer deputy with the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office was sentenced to four years in prison after he was convicted of second-degree manslaughter in the shooting death of Eric Harris, who was also black and unarmed.

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4 hours ago, BOF said:

Well at least this word removed has been charged with first degree manslaughter.

betty-shelby4.jpg

TULSA, Okla. (AP) — Prosecutors charged a white Oklahoma police officer with first-degree manslaughter Thursday, less than a week after she killed an unarmed black man on a city street and just days after police released graphic videos, saying in court documents the officer "reacted unreasonably."

Tulsa officer Betty Shelby fatally shot 40-year-old Terence Crutcher on Sept. 16. The affidavit filed with the charge says Shelby "reacted unreasonably by escalating the situation from a confrontation with Mr. Crutcher, who was not responding to verbal commands and was walking away from her with his hands held up, becoming emotionally involved to the point that she over reacted."

Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler said arrangements were being made for Shelby's surrender.

The swift action in Tulsa stood in contrast to Charlotte, North Carolina, where police refused under mounting pressure Thursday to release video of the shooting of another black man this week and the National Guard was called in to try to a head off a third night of violence. Demonstrations in Tulsa since Crutcher's death have been consistently peaceful.

Dashcam and aerial footage of the shooting and its aftermath showed Crutcher walking away from Shelby with his arms in the air. The footage does not offer a clear view of when Shelby fired the single shot that killed Crutcher. Her attorney has said Crutcher was not following police commands and that Shelby opened fire when the man began to reach into his SUV window.

But Crutcher's family immediately discounted that claim, saying the father of four posed no threat to the officers. They also pointed to an enlarged photo from police footage that appears to show Crutcher's window was rolled up. And police said Crutcher did not have a gun on him or in his vehicle.

The affidavit filed Thursday also indicates that Shelby "cleared the driver's side front" of Crutcher's vehicle before she began interacting with Crutcher, suggesting she may have known there was no gun on the driver's side of the vehicle.

The affidavit says Shelby told police homicide investigators that "she was in fear for her life and thought Mr. Crutcher was going to kill her. When she began following Mr. Crutcher to the vehicle with her duty weapon drawn, she was yelling for him to stop and get on his knees repeatedly."

Crutcher was wearing "baggy clothes" but Shelby "was not able to see any weapons or bulges indicating a weapon was present," the affidavit states.

Prosecutors offer two possible theories in charging documents: that Shelby killed Crutcher impulsively in a fit of anger or that she wrongly killed him as she sought to detain him. The case first goes to a judge, who will decide whether there is enough evidence for a trial. Lee F. Berlin, a Tulsa-based defense lawyer and a former assistant district attorney in Oklahoma, said prosecutors may at some point decide to move forward with only one of the theories or could present both to jurors and let them decide.

If convicted, Shelby faces between four years and life in prison.

Crutcher's twin sister, Tiffany Crutcher, said the family was pleased the criminal charge was filed and urged a vigorous prosecution that leads to a conviction.

"Our goal now is to ensure that this never happens to another innocent citizen," Tiffany Crutcher said. "We're going to break the chains of injustice. We're going to break the chains of police brutality."

Tulsa Mayor Dewey Bartlett said police worked quickly to provide Kunzweiler with the information he needed to decide whether to charge the officer.

"I appreciate their efforts as well as the District Attorney's usual thorough evaluation of the rules of law for which we are all accountable," Bartlett said in a written statement. "We will continue to be transparent and ensure the system carries out its responsibility to provide justice."

Shelby, who joined the Tulsa Police Department in December 2011, was en route to a domestic violence call when she encountered Crutcher's vehicle abandoned on a city street, straddling the center line. Shelby did not activate her patrol car's dashboard camera, so no footage exists of what first happened between the two before other officers arrived.

The police footage shows Crutcher approaching the driver's side of the SUV, then more officers walk up and Crutcher appears to lower his hands and place them on the vehicle. A man inside a police helicopter overhead says: "That looks like a bad dude, too. Probably on something."

Police Sgt. Dave Walker has said investigators found a vial of the drug PCP in Crutcher's vehicle. Shelby's attorney, Scott Wood, has said that Shelby completed drug-recognition expert training and thought Crutcher was acting like he might be under the influence of PCP.

Attorneys for Crutcher's family said the family didn't know whether drugs were found in the SUV, but that even if they were, it wouldn't justify the shooting.

A toxicology report could take several weeks.

Wood did not immediately return phone messages seeking comment about Shelby being charged.

In the videos, the officers surround Crutcher and he suddenly drops to the ground. A voice heard on the police radio says: "Shots fired!" The officers back away and Crutcher is left unattended on the street for about two minutes before an officer puts on medical gloves and begins to attend to him.

"The tragic circumstances surrounding the death of Mr. Crutcher are on the hearts and minds of many people in this community," Kunzweiler said. "It's important to note that despite the heightened tensions felt by all, which seemingly beg for an emotional response and reaction, our community has consistently demonstrated the willingness to respect the judicial process."

At least two dozen people gathered outside the courthouse after the district attorney announced the officer was charged. Later, a peaceful rally was held in front of City Hall. Some demonstrators expressed disappointed Shelby wasn't charged with first-degree murder, but others considered Thursday's announcement a victory.

"Today we can say without a shadow of a doubt that the system has worked for black lives," said activist Marq Lewis, an organizer of the civil rights group We the People Oklahoma, which led the rally in front of City Hall. "We are getting something done in Tulsa that no other city is getting done."

Earlier this year, a white former volunteer deputy with the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office was sentenced to four years in prison after he was convicted of second-degree manslaughter in the shooting death of Eric Harris, who was also black and unarmed.

She'll do 2-3 years max. Meanwhile the guy she shot got the death penalty. Not sure real justice will be served here. That said, AG acted very fast in charging the officer, which is very unusual, usually they do everything they can to avoid that. 

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