Gun violence in the USA

[villa4europe]

13 hours ago, BillyShears said:

All my friends in Texas have at least 2 guns, usually nearer to 5 or 6. I didn't get one, but I was encouraged to get one for self-protection, it would have been easy to legally buy one too as a Legal Permanent Resident. I went target shooting at a local ranch with my mate, he brought a Smith & Wesson and a Glock for us to use. I really enjoyed it, I'd never fired a gun before. It's all so different out there, took a while to adjust.

that's the same thinking I would have, if I went to a shooting range I would love it, been clay pigeon shooting and on a game drive and had a great time, if it was cheaper I'd do it a couple of times a year, I don't ever pretend that shooting a gun can be fun

would I want to keep a shotgun at home? no, would I want to keep handguns and assault rifles at home? absolutely **** not

if you feel that unsafe in your own home that you feel the need to keep an assault rifle then you need to move or get therapy 

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

that's the same thinking I would have, if I went to a shooting range I would love it, been clay pigeon shooting and on a game drive and had a great time, if it was cheaper I'd do it a couple of times a year, I don't ever pretend that shooting a gun can be fun

would I want to keep a shotgun at home? no, would I want to keep handguns and assault rifles at home? absolutely **** not

if you feel that unsafe in your own home that you feel the need to keep an assault rifle then you need to move or get therapy 

Not to get too deep into the gun debate (for or against) one thing to bare in mind is the geography of the US.

If you live on the ranch in texas, Arizona, a countryside house in Cali, it's very possible that the nearest police patrol is 25/30 mins drive away from you. That is something very rare in Europe. If you live in those country areas and you have a young family and someone poses a threat, you better defend yourself because no one else will do it for you. In that case, I would consider a gun myself.

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Not to get too deep into the gun debate (for or against) one thing to bare in mind is the geography of the US.

If you live on the ranch in texas, Arizona, a countryside house in Cali, it's very possible that the nearest police patrol is 25/30 mins drive away from you. That is something very rare in Europe. If you live in those country areas and you have a young family and someone poses a threat, you better defend yourself because no one else will do it for you. In that case, I would consider a gun myself.

If you live that deep in the country, it's extremely unlikely that anybody will be coming to your house to pose a threat. 

'I own a gun for protection' and 'I'm a responsible gun owner who locks his guns in a safe' are mutually incompatible claims (famously mocked by Jim Jeffries among others). If your country-dweller has a gun to hand to use to defend his family, it's much more likely to be used for suicide or fired by accident. 

[bickster]

59 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

it's very possible that the nearest police patrol is 25/30 mins drive away from you.

You clearly haven't had cause to phone the police in the UK recently

[villa4europe]

52 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Not to get too deep into the gun debate (for or against) one thing to bare in mind is the geography of the US.

If you live on the ranch in texas, Arizona, a countryside house in Cali, it's very possible that the nearest police patrol is 25/30 mins drive away from you. That is something very rare in Europe. If you live in those country areas and you have a young family and someone poses a threat, you better defend yourself because no one else will do it for you. In that case, I would consider a gun myself.

the highlighted is difference 1 and difference 2 between America and the rest of the modern world

the belief that someone poses a threat to you, the spiel they are constantly fed about the enemies of America, and i don't mean modern muslimist threats, before that it was the reds, before that im not sure but no doubt it was something and then there's always their deep religious fear of gay people, black people or anyone else they happen to not like and use the good book to justify it , they're a scared country, I didn't ever feel in danger in England* and I don't now in Germany either

the belief that you should defend yourself because no one else will, I don't think that exists in England, from point 1 its the belief that if you ever did stumble across someone in your house it would be a druggie looking for something quick and easy to sell (* victim of that myself, I've been robbed) rather than some devil who is there with the intention of rape and murder, you would as calmly as possible leave him to it hoping your insurance pays out, I wouldn't fight someone off in a month of sundays, id probably barricade myself somewhere safe

[kurtsimonw]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

Not to get too deep into the gun debate (for or against) one thing to bare in mind is the geography of the US.

If you live on the ranch in texas, Arizona, a countryside house in Cali, it's very possible that the nearest police patrol is 25/30 mins drive away from you. That is something very rare in Europe. If you live in those country areas and you have a young family and someone poses a threat, you better defend yourself because no one else will do it for you. In that case, I would consider a gun myself.

It's a bit of a nothing debate, though.

Having no guns will reduce crime anyway, because people who pose a threat will 1) reduce in numbers without a gun themselves and 2) pose less of a threat without a gun.

Also, if someone is attacking you, whether the police officer lives next door or a thousand miles away, chances are you aren't likely to be able to call them and them get to you before the altercation is over, surely?

[BillyShears]

Before it all happened in Midland/Odessa, I would have said, "Huh, no-one better try a mass shooting around there because they would be shot down pretty much straight away". Then all my Facebook posts are "STAY INDOORS!!! STAY INDOORS!!!" when it really did happen. So where were all the (civilian) good guys with guns? Probably indoors crapping themselves.

[kurtsimonw]

3 hours ago, villa4europe said:

the highlighted is difference 1 and difference 2 between America and the rest of the modern world

the belief that someone poses a threat to you, the spiel they are constantly fed about the enemies of America, and i don't mean modern muslimist threats, before that it was the reds, before that im not sure but no doubt it was something and then there's always their deep religious fear of gay people, black people or anyone else they happen to not like and use the good book to justify it , they're a scared country, I didn't ever feel in danger in England* and I don't now in Germany either

the belief that you should defend yourself because no one else will, I don't think that exists in England, from point 1 its the belief that if you ever did stumble across someone in your house it would be a druggie looking for something quick and easy to sell (* victim of that myself, I've been robbed) rather than some devil who is there with the intention of rape and murder, you would as calmly as possible leave him to it hoping your insurance pays out, I wouldn't fight someone off in a month of sundays, id probably barricade myself somewhere safe

And this is if someone happens to come to your home.

What about shootings at schools, in the streets, shopping malls, places of worship? Does this mean people should be carrying assault rifles with them at all times? It's just mental. 

I've genuinely yet to hear one even remotely sensible argument from the pro-gun side.

[villa4europe]

22 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

And this is if someone happens to come to your home.

What about shootings at schools, in the streets, shopping malls, places of worship? Does this mean people should be carrying assault rifles with them at all times? It's just mental. 

I've genuinely yet to hear one even remotely sensible argument from the pro-gun side.

yep, back to my original point, if you live in a world where you feel like you have to carry a gun on you as you do the weekly shop in case something goes down then you either need to move or start to question where your fear is coming from

living like that is more irrational than a fear of flying

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, BillyShears said:

Before it all happened in Midland/Odessa, I would have said, "Huh, no-one better try a mass shooting around there because they would be shot down pretty much straight away". Then all my Facebook posts are "STAY INDOORS!!! STAY INDOORS!!!" when it really did happen. So where were all the (civilian) good guys with guns? Probably indoors crapping themselves.

Has any mass shooter EVER been taken out by a "good guy with a gun"? And if you were one of these good guys, would you want to be standing around in the mall/school/theatre waving a gun when the police SWAT guys rock up? 

[villa4europe]

cant remember which mass shooting it was, pretty sure it was one of the schools, maybe last year, victim number 1 - the armed guard at the front door

[kurtsimonw]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

Has any mass shooter EVER been taken out by a "good guy with a gun"? And if you were one of these good guys, would you want to be standing around in the mall/school/theatre waving a gun when the police SWAT guys rock up? 

Exactly what I was just about to post. The police over there are already incredibly trigger happy, think they'll even ask once if they see someone with a gun?

Imagine drunken sports fans at a bar? You'll end up with that bar scene out of Inglorious Basterds.

[GarethRDR]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

cant remember which mass shooting it was, pretty sure it was one of the schools, maybe last year, victim number 1 - the armed guard at the front door

Yeah but's that only because the first victim never knows what's coming and he got the drop on 'im.  If victim #2 had been packing it would have been three shots, centre mass, threat neutralized, no collateral damage at all.  Absolutely.  Yessiree.  'MURICA!

[Chindie]

22 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Has any mass shooter EVER been taken out by a "good guy with a gun"? And if you were one of these good guys, would you want to be standing around in the mall/school/theatre waving a gun when the police SWAT guys rock up? 

There's a tiny number of incidents where the 'good guy with a gun' intervenes. Compared to the number of shooting incidents, it's basically irrelevant. People in these situations rarely have the mindset to fire back, and invariably the incident ends when the shooter kills themselves or the police do it for them.

[sharkyvilla]

I often wonder what they do when they go on holiday, do they pack one in their suitcase, do they want to be able to take one on board a plane etc. 

[Dom_Wren]

16 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I often wonder what they do when they go on holiday, do they pack one in their suitcase, do they want to be able to take one on board a plane etc. 

I take mine when I travel  within states with reciprocal agreements on my CWP (concealed weapons permit). 

Have never took it on a plane, but do know there is a process for it and its kept in the hold, not on the main body of the plane.

[villa4europe]

11 minutes ago, Dom_Wren said:

I take mine when I travel  within states with reciprocal agreements on my CWP (concealed weapons permit). 

for what purpose?

competition or range or event in a different state then I understand

weekend break in San Francisco I don't, knowing what you do a football match in a different state then I really don't, are there rules with your work and carrying a gun?

[sne]

14 minutes ago, Dom_Wren said:

I take mine when I travel  within states with reciprocal agreements on my CWP (concealed weapons permit). 

Have never took it on a plane, but do know there is a process for it and its kept in the hold, not on the main body of the plane.

[Dom_Wren]

Just now, villa4europe said:

for what purpose?

competition or range or event in a different state then I understand

weekend break in San Francisco I don't, knowing what you do a football match in a different state then I really don't, are there rules with your work and carrying a gun?

Don't ever carry on me when i'm working, more having it in my truck when I travel.

[sne]

In a move that will no doubt cause outrage, protests and calls for boycotts from NRA-nuts retail chain Walmart will stop selling ammunition for certain weapons after the latest couple of mass shootings.