Gun violence in the USA

[Vancvillan]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

I cant remember any mass shootings in Perth.There was one in Tasmania a while ago.

If you mean Port Arthur that was 25 years ago. Crazy that outside of the US we think of shootings that happened decades ago, while they have a new one every couple of weeks.

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Vancvillan

[PussEKatt]

Yes.Port Arthur is the one that I was thinking about.

As I said in an earlier post,shootings in the USA is like the next episode of Coronation street,you just know that there WILL be another episode,and another,etc,etc,etc

[bickster]

14,000 people were murdered in the USA in 2018 by being shot (38 per day)

24,000 people committed suicide in the USA in 2018 using a gun (64 per day)

[villa4europe]

i had to explain to my wife what Chiraq meant over the weekend after she heard it on TV

it was a quiet weekend by the looks of it, just the 4 people killed and 20 injured in shootings, including an 11 year old shot by an 8 year old

 

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, Vancvillan said:

the ownership rate for registered firearms is approximately 1 per 10 people in WA

That is astonishingly high. Dunno what it is in the UK, but I'd be surprised if it was more than one in a thousand. 

[Vancvillan]

24 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

That is astonishingly high. Dunno what it is in the UK, but I'd be surprised if it was more than one in a thousand. 

For registered firearms in England and Wales it's about 1 in 30. Keep in mind that someone who owns a firearm probably has more than one, so it's not that 1 in 30 people have a firearm.

 

For context, the US has about 1 registered firearm per 200 people. The problem is that they have well over 300 million unregistered. 

[villakram]

8 hours ago, bickster said:

14,000 people were murdered in the USA in 2018 by being shot (38 per day)

24,000 people committed suicide in the USA in 2018 using a gun (64 per day)

This.

Absolutely maddening how rarely this point is made in the gun "debate". I did see an ad during the weekend from some gun related agency (not NRA or feds), suggesting that people add a simple padlocks/chains to their guns to block the trigger or firing pin, to ensure that no rash decision could be made or at least to help cut down on them. Better than doing nothing I suppose.

[Vancvillan]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

This.

Absolutely maddening how rarely this point is made in the gun "debate". I did see an ad during the weekend from some gun related agency (not NRA or feds), suggesting that people add a simple padlocks/chains to their guns to block the trigger or firing pin, to ensure that no rash decision could be made or at least to help cut down on them. Better than doing nothing I suppose.

A combination of training being required for ownership and safe storage laws are low hanging fruit to start moving both numbers in a better direction.

[AJ]

14 hours ago, Vancvillan said:

Add the fact that the ownership rate for registered firearms is approximately 1 per 10 people in WA (which is obviously lower than the States but there are still a decent number of private firearms owners) and it gets pretty hard to argue that gun control legislation doesn't work.

That's not to say I agree with all the details of their (or Canadian) firearms legislation, but the general principle of making ownership very hard for people who don't need firearms is clearly a pretty effective strategy.

Where exactly are you getting that figure?

If you are just guesstimating, then you would be way off.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

Where exactly are you getting that figure?

If you are just guesstimating, then you would be way off.

The internet says it’s about right.

Quote

Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) per 100 people in Western Australia is 11.77%

 

[AJ]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

The internet says it’s about right.

 

That is very surprising, as it does seem unusually high. 

I just did the googly thing, and according to a recent study, gun owners in Australia make up 3.4% of the pop. If that figure of 11.4% is true, and considering that Western Australia only makes up 10% of the Australian population, it seems they have gone bonkers over boom sticks over there. 

[PussEKatt]

I live in Perth WA and all I can say about those numbers is that someone somewhere has got it terribly wrong.All I can think of is that the police here in WA carry guns,maybe we have more police than I thought ?!

[LondonLax]

1 minute ago, PussEKatt said:

I live in Perth WA and all I can say about those numbers is that someone somewhere has got it terribly wrong.All I can think of is that the police here in WA carry guns,maybe we have more police than I thought ?!

It won't be the people in Perth, it will be all the farmers in the countryside shooting roos and feral pigs. 

[PussEKatt]

6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

It won't be the people in Perth, it will be all the farmers in the countryside shooting roos and feral pigs. 

You must be right,I dont even know where you could go to buy a gun in Perth.

[bickster]

37 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

You must be right,I dont even know where you could go to buy a gun in Perth.

Let me assist you in that

 

[Vancvillan]

9 hours ago, AJ said:

Where exactly are you getting that figure?

If you are just guesstimating, then you would be way off.

Registered number of firearms divided by population. 

Australia has pretty strict laws around registering firearms (unlike the US and Canada) so it's easy to extrapolate.

And as @LondonLaxsaid there's a huge rural / urban disparity - people in cities don't need them, people who work on farms definitely do (and typically need more than one).

That second point is important - city dwellers (a group in which I include myself) who don't need firearms often think of those who do own firearms as a bunch of AR-toting maniac preppers. People who farm or hunt hear that and think that urbanites are clueless hipsters with no connection to their own food supply. Neither is true, but it drives a wedge between the two grouos and makes meaningful dialogue pretty difficult.

In Canada, people in cities cheered the AR-15 ban despite the fact that the ban was by name only - you can still buy a semi-automatic rifle that shoots 223.  People who knew this (licenced gun owners) criticized the new law and were painted with a very specific brush by the media.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Vancvillan
Spelling

[HanoiVillan]

7 hours ago, bickster said:

Let me assist you in that

 

'Popaway and Bang'

[AJ]

7 hours ago, Vancvillan said:

Registered number of firearms divided by population. 

Australia has pretty strict laws around registering firearms (unlike the US and Canada) so it's easy to extrapolate.

And as @LondonLaxsaid there's a huge rural / urban disparity - people in cities don't need them, people who work on farms definitely do (and typically need more than one).

That second point is important - city dwellers (a group in which I include myself) who don't need firearms often think of those who do own firearms as a bunch of AR-toting maniac preppers. People who farm or hunt hear that and think that urbanites are clueless hipsters with no connection to their own food supply. Neither is true, but it drives a wedge between the two grouos and makes meaningful dialogue pretty difficult.

In Canada, people in cities cheered the AR-15 ban despite the fact that the ban was by name only - you can still buy a semi-automatic rifle that shoots 223.  People who knew this (licenced gun owners) criticized the new law and were painted with a very specific brush by the media.

I agree with your points, and I certainly can relate to the difference in rural/ urban attitudes towards gun ownership.

Just crunching the numbers I mentioned above, total gun owners in WA make up about 330 000. West Aussies not living in Perth, about 230 000. So, either the stats are not clarifying numbers of weapons per person, or there are 100 000 Perthians running around with gats. In comparison to the rest of the country, there is a total of about 850 000 gun owners in the country. This is disturbing, as a state that makes up a 10th of the population nearly owns half of the guns. 

As for the attitudes you mentioned, I can relate to that. In my younger years, I lived in Mt Isa, and I owned a semi auto SKK. It was just an accumulated thing I just wanted to have.  I  wasn't really getting much use out of it, so I sold it. When I joined the Army, I learned to hate guns. An hour plus sitting around cleaning the things for a 10 minute shoot? Piss off. I have settled in Brisbane now, and I can't understand anyone wanting to own one, unless they were a competitive shooter, or a wannabe gangsta. I can understand farmers needing guns, but for them, they are pretty much tools of the trade. 

This is so different from the States. Any idiot over there who wants a gun can have one. I have also noticed it is now legal to murder people with their new " Stand your ground" laws. I will always be grateful my country will never get as f***ed up as that.

[AJ]

 

John Oliver explaining Murica"s new  Stand Your Ground laws. 

This is some disturbing shit.

Edited October 20, 2021 by limpid
fixed embed

[Vancvillan]

41 minutes ago, AJ said:

I agree with your points, and I certainly can relate to the difference in rural/ urban attitudes towards gun ownership.

Just crunching the numbers I mentioned above, total gun owners in WA make up about 330 000. West Aussies not living in Perth, about 230 000. So, either the stats are not clarifying numbers of weapons per person, or there are 100 000 Perthians running around with gats. In comparison to the rest of the country, there is a total of about 850 000 gun owners in the country. This is disturbing, as a state that makes up a 10th of the population nearly owns half of the guns. 

As for the attitudes you mentioned, I can relate to that. In my younger years, I lived in Mt Isa, and I owned a semi auto SKK. It was just an accumulated thing I just wanted to have.  I  wasn't really getting much use out of it, so I sold it. When I joined the Army, I learned to hate guns. An hour plus sitting around cleaning the things for a 10 minute shoot? Piss off. I have settled in Brisbane now, and I can't understand anyone wanting to own one, unless they were a competitive shooter, or a wannabe gangsta. I can understand farmers needing guns, but for them, they are pretty much tools of the trade. 

This is so different from the States. Any idiot over there who wants a gun can have one. I have also noticed it is now legal to murder people with their new " Stand your ground" laws. I will always be grateful my country will never get as f***ed up as that.

Yeah, the numbers are 100% skewed by the fact that people who own one own several. I think I used the term "ownership rate" and that isn't right at all - sorry, I should have said guns per 100 people.

I think it depends where you live in terms of people wanting to own one. I don't do much ocean fishing so I don't own a boat. They're basically the same thing to me - a "widget" to help get meat in the freezer. They're both a headache to clean, move and store too.