Mantis Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lord ashcroft nobbled? Or just coincidence? I'm inclined to think the former ...Absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The fact Labour haven't ... put forward any real plans for cutting the deficit and our overall debt ... Ignoring whether or not a government is actually able to control 'the deficit' (or at least do that independently of affecting the wider economy and GDP), your comment highlights a big issue here. As you admit with 'not big into politics', you appear to have missed/ignored the proposals put forward by Darling in his last budget and the opposition since and the performance of Osborne and the government against their plans and forecasts on deficit reduction over the past five years.I'm not making an argument about whose plan was better or likely to be more effective and whether or not exogenous influences are/were bigger than any politician would acknowledge but rather pointing out that saying the above was 'fact' is a mistake - at best it was your opinion on whether the plans they put forward would work at worst it was as described in my para above. As to the Tory position pre-2008 financial crisis, I'll quote again Osborne's words (Torygraph link) from September 2007:“Today, I can confirm for the first time that a Conservative government will adopt these spending totals,” the Shadow Chancellor said.“Total government spending will rise by 2 per cent a year in real terms, from £616 billion next year to £674 billion in the year 2010/11.“Like Labour, we will review the final year’s total in a spending review in 2009,” Mr Osborne wrote in a newspaper article....“The charge from our opponents that we will cut services becomes transparently false,” he said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I voted tories and I have to say the cut on certain tax credits (like the lady on question time) for me is disgraceful. I think they will reverse this though, well I hope so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I voted tories and I have to say the cut on certain tax credits (like the lady on question time) for me is disgraceful. Everything else they're doing is OK though? First they came for the disabled, but I wasn't disabled so I didn't speak out .... UN Investigates Human Rights violations of the disabled by IDS and the Tories 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I voted tories and I have to say the cut on certain tax credits (like the lady on question time) for me is disgraceful. Everything else they're doing is OK though? First they came for the disabled, but I wasn't disabled so I didn't speak out .... UN Investigates Human Rights violations of the disabled by IDS and the Tories i dont think they are doing that great but better than when labour were in control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I voted tories and I have to say the cut on certain tax credits (like the lady on question time) for me is disgraceful. Everything else they're doing is OK though? First they came for the disabled, but I wasn't disabled so I didn't speak out .... UN Investigates Human Rights violations of the disabled by IDS and the Tories Therein lies the problem doesn't it that there has been too much of an alright Jack attitude. People may feel sorry for those less fortunate but when push comes to shove due to the fear of potentially having a few less pennies in their own pocket enough people stuck an x alongside the Tories. Chickens will come home to roost for most over the next 5 years though. Our public services are being decimated. The NHS is heading for crisis and already we see things like cancer waiting times going up on top of A and E waiting time targets frequently being missed. Neighbourhood Policing is being slashed. Social care is in an appalling state due to huge cuts to local government funding for many local authorities with more cuts to come. Local community centres and libraries shut down etc etc. Not all the things being cut will affect everybody and some may not have been touched by them yet but eventually they will. Be it when you or one of yours becomes ill, gets too frail to take care of themselves, need to call on the Police or fire service etc etc. Or maybe you’ll lose your job to find that your stigmatised and treated like a scrounging bastard just because you have hit on hard times. The above is all on top of things like the erosion of workers’ rights, the cuts to legal aid, the changes this mob proposes to human rights and now its failure to act to save our steel industry. I have almost certainly only touched the surface and those more clued up than me could probably present a list as long as your arm. I was still in short trousers for much of the Thatcher years but know all about the destruction that witch caused and the fact that many communities have still not recovered due to her and her governments actions. Some may well get to the end of this mobs tenure with a few quid more in their pocket than they may have had, and I might well be one of them, but the things we will have lost and the state our public services will be in won’t have been a price worth paying for it. The biggest loss of all though will be in the way we look at and treat each other. This Government have stigmatised the disabled, the sick, the frail, those out of work, immigrants and brainwashed some into seeing anyone that can’t take care of themselves or needs a leg up as a burden. That quite frankly is not a society I am happy to live amongst. Edited October 20, 2015 by markavfc40 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I voted tories and I have to say the cut on certain tax credits (like the lady on question time) for me is disgraceful. Everything else they're doing is OK though? First they came for the disabled, but I wasn't disabled so I didn't speak out .... UN Investigates Human Rights violations of the disabled by IDS and the Tories Therein lies the problem doesn't it that there has been too much of an alright Jack attitude. People may feel sorry for those less fortunate but when push comes to shove due to the fear of potentially having a few less pennies in their own pocket enough people stuck an x alongside the Tories. Chickens will come home to roost for most over the next 5 years though. Our public services are being decimated. The NHS is heading for crisis and already we see things like cancer waiting times going up on top of A and E waiting time targets frequently being missed. Neighbourhood Policing is being slashed. Social care is in an appalling state due to huge cuts to local government funding for many local authorities with more cuts to come. Local community centres and libraries shut down etc etc. Not all the things being cut will affect everybody and some may not have been touched by them yet but eventually they will. Be it when you or one of your becomes ill, gets too frail to take care of themselves, need to call on the Police or fire service etc etc. Or maybe you’ll lose your job to find that your stigmatised and treated like a scrounging bastard just because you have hit on hard times. The above is all on top of things like the erosion of workers’ rights, the cuts to legal aid, the changes this mob proposes to human rights and now its failure to act to save our steel industry. I have almost certainly only touched the surface and those more clued up than me could probably present a list as long as your arm. I was still in short trousers for much of the Thatcher years but know all about the destruction that witch caused and the fact that many communities have still not recovered due to her and her governments actions. Some may well get to the end of this mobs tenure with a few quid more in their pocket than they may have had, and I might well be one of them, but the things we will have lost and the state our public services will be in won’t have been a price worth paying for it. The biggest loss of all though will be in the way we look at and treat each other. This Government have stigmatised the disabled, the sick, the frail, those out of work, immigrants and brainwashed some into seeing anyone that can’t take care of themselves or needs a leg up as a burden. That quite frankly is not a society I am happy to live amongst. not saying I support a host of these decisions but why are these cuts being made? If the alternative didn't get us in this mess in the firstvplacw people would not have put a x for tories. Personally I can only speak from my own and family and we are better off now than I was when labour were in power. And I'm not rich at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The cuts have been implemented in a particularly vindictive and nasty way based on a flawed ideology (neo-libralism) by on the whole, privileged well educated but intellectually deficient politicians and in support of increased transfer of power and wealth to the already powerful and wealthy and from everybody else. All based on the false but convient premise that fiscal policy is the cause of all problems, when the real root cause problem is based in monetary policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The cuts have been implemented in a particularly vindictive and nasty way based on a flawed ideology (neo-libralism) by on the whole, privileged well educated but intellectually deficient politicians and in support of increased transfer of power and wealth to the already powerful and wealthy and from everybody else. All based on the false but convient premise that fiscal policy is the cause of all problems, when the real root cause problem is based in monetary policyWould you explain that a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I voted tories and I have to say the cut on certain tax credits (like the lady on question time) for me is disgraceful. Everything else they're doing is OK though? First they came for the disabled, but I wasn't disabled so I didn't speak out .... UN Investigates Human Rights violations of the disabled by IDS and the Tories Therein lies the problem doesn't it that there has been too much of an alright Jack attitude. People may feel sorry for those less fortunate but when push comes to shove due to the fear of potentially having a few less pennies in their own pocket enough people stuck an x alongside the Tories. Chickens will come home to roost for most over the next 5 years though. Our public services are being decimated. The NHS is heading for crisis and already we see things like cancer waiting times going up on top of A and E waiting time targets frequently being missed. Neighbourhood Policing is being slashed. Social care is in an appalling state due to huge cuts to local government funding for many local authorities with more cuts to come. Local community centres and libraries shut down etc etc. Not all the things being cut will affect everybody and some may not have been touched by them yet but eventually they will. Be it when you or one of yours becomes ill, gets too frail to take care of themselves, need to call on the Police or fire service etc etc. Or maybe you’ll lose your job to find that your stigmatised and treated like a scrounging bastard just because you have hit on hard times. The above is all on top of things like the erosion of workers’ rights, the cuts to legal aid, the changes this mob proposes to human rights and now its failure to act to save our steel industry. I have almost certainly only touched the surface and those more clued up than me could probably present a list as long as your arm. I was still in short trousers for much of the Thatcher years but know all about the destruction that witch caused and the fact that many communities have still not recovered due to her and her governments actions. Some may well get to the end of this mobs tenure with a few quid more in their pocket than they may have had, and I might well be one of them, but the things we will have lost and the state our public services will be in won’t have been a price worth paying for it. The biggest loss of all though will be in the way we look at and treat each other. This Government have stigmatised the disabled, the sick, the frail, those out of work, immigrants and brainwashed some into seeing anyone that can’t take care of themselves or needs a leg up as a burden. That quite frankly is not a society I am happy to live amongst. Governments don't brainwash people into how they live their life ... that comes from people's upbringing or maybe their education (or the Murdoch media if you believe VT ) You must have been abroad in 2012 when people were embracing the Paralympics , you must be missing the countless selfless acts that people do towards the disabled , the elderly the needy , refugees ... don't judge everyone by the actions of the "share if you agree" brigade on social media , the majority of the population are caring . What is true is that welfare was manipulated to a point where some people were better off not working , where some people made fraudulent claims and quite rightly people wanted to see an end to this ... Nobody wanted to see the elderly suffer , nobody wants to see someone dying being told their treatment will stop or that they should get a job .... that's governments or atos over stepping their brief and they should be held to account for that ... but equally your anger should possibly be towards those who were making the fraudulent claims or exploiting the system to start with . oh for sure someone will counter with the old Starbucks or bankers argument and that is a whole other debate but I don't think you should give up on society just yet Edited October 20, 2015 by tonyh29 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Cameron definitely should visit Scunthorpe - it probably won't save the jobs but at least it will provide an answer to one of the oldest questions in English history. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Cameron definitely should visit Scunthorpe - it probably won't save the jobs but at least it will provide an answer to one of the oldest questions in English history.I'm intrigued... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 20, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted October 20, 2015 Cameron definitely should visit Scunthorpe - it probably won't save the jobs but at least it will provide an answer to one of the oldest questions in English history.I'm intrigued... If Ty-Phoo put the 'T' in Britain, who put the c*** in Scunthorpe? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 ... If the alternative didn't get us in this mess in the first place...Whoa Dem, remove that wool from your eyes and you can make yourself a chunky sweater for the Winter months. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 ... If the alternative didn't get us in this mess in the first place...Whoa Dem, remove that wool from your eyes and you can make yourself a chunky sweater for the Winter months. Sadly though, the ' powers that be' have succeeded in planting and sowing that seed. For many, it's an aaccepted truth. But it's bollocks and stands up to no scrutiny. Shame on ed Miller Group for letting that seed grow for 5 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) it's an aaccepted truth. Edited October 20, 2015 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Further scumbaggery from the vermin.The Tories are removing twice as many people from the electoral register in Britain's poorest areas as the richest... Most worryingly, underrepresentation now could be made permanent because the new boundaries for parliamentary constituencies will be decided on the electoral register as it stands on 1 December 2015.The Government wants to base the new boundaries – which are expected to favour the Conservatives – on registered voters rather than actual population levels.This means that missing voters in poorer areas – usually safe Labour – could lead to entire constituencies disappearing and reappearing in rich areas – usually safe Conservative.This would shore up the in-built advantage the Conservatives have under the current electoral system.Independent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 One way of keeping the establishment in power is obviously to prevent people from voting. Especially the poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 There's just far too much ignorance of all this shit. If people actually paid attention things might be somewhat different ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) There's just far too much ignorance of all this shit. If people actually paid attention things might be somewhat different ...Again I ask what is the alternative? If the rest of the other parties were not so crap people might not have voted tory. Edited October 20, 2015 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts