The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Follyfoot]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

the option of not doing war always exists as proven by our not declaring war on Saudi Arabia 

Nothing to do with them being one of the most heavily funded armed forces in the world

[chrisp65]

6 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

MPs to get pay rise while everyone can struggle. Disgusting

 

 

Ideally, there should have been an option With no pay rise, but we stand on the doorstep at 7:00pm on a Thursday and show our appreciation.

Obviously, by appreciation, I mean arses.

 

[Lichfield Dean]

I really hate our government at the moment. What kind of popularist nonsense is this? It makes no sense, there is no clear connection between the dangerous offenders, Lithuania, asylum seeking and illegally-facilitated routes. The whole tweet makes no sense. They know this and they know it plays into the hands of people who just see certain key words and think the government are "looking after our interests" or whatever.

The entire government and civil service is a total embarrassment. Makes me so angry that people are actually applauding this stuff.

I'd love to know what 'values' they abused as well.

[snowychap]

 

[Seat68]

17 minutes ago, snowychap said:

 

They used to have the same contract for Capgemini/HMRC. I last worked for them in 2008 so unsure if they still have the contract. 

[blandy]

8 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I really hate our government at the moment. What kind of popularist nonsense is this? It makes no sense, there is no clear connection between the dangerous offenders, Lithuania, asylum seeking and illegally-facilitated routes. The whole tweet makes no sense. They know this and they know it plays into the hands of people who just see certain key words and think the government are "looking after our interests" or whatever.

The entire government and civil service is a total embarrassment. Makes me so angry that people are actually applauding this stuff.

I'd love to know what 'values' they abused as well.

The Home office is historically bad at deporting foreign criminals. It's been that way for ages. This tweet for me doesn't make me angry because they've hoofed out 14 criminals - I think they should get kicked out. It just seems ridiculous when they're so bad at it and have been for decades - and you're right it's dog whistling. Just do their job efficiently, fairly and effectively.

[Shomin Geki]

8 hours ago, snowychap said:

 

I've been grimly following this story for the past couple of months via The Good Law Project on Twitter.  In addition to a couple of Guardian articles, I see that Bill Esterson, the Labour MP for Sefton Central, has recently commented on these seemingly indefensible findings.  But is this enough?  How is this not bigger news?  This is not a rhetorical question. 

I've found precisely one instance, so far, of this issue being brought up in parliament, yet such apparently straightforward wrongdoing, if not criminal, activity still lurks principally around the shoutier ends of social media.  Could anyone offer any suggestions as to why this ongoing story, which, if nothing else, neatly ties together many somewhat loose ends connecting Tory incompetence, venality and myopia, hasn't been seized upon by, at least, the Labour leadership?

[Lichfield Dean]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

The Home office is historically bad at deporting foreign criminals. It's been that way for ages. This tweet for me doesn't make me angry because they've hoofed out 14 criminals - I think they should get kicked out. It just seems ridiculous when they're so bad at it and have been for decades - and you're right it's dog whistling. Just do their job efficiently, fairly and effectively.

Exactly this. It's the way they are communicating that is the issue with me.

[markavfc40]

Fair play to Andy Burnham and the other northern metro mayors who are refusing to accept the government's financial package when businesses are again forced to close.

It looks like pubs/restaurants are going to be forced to close in parts of the north and midlands next week and many of those who work in hospitality are earning minimum wage which is £8.72 if over 25 or as low as £4.55 if under 18.

The government's pledge to pay two thirds of those workers wages will therefore leave someone over 25 on £5.81 an hour. Assuming they have full time contracts that gives them over a 37 hour week £215. FFS these people will have rent/mortgages/energy bills etc to pay which aren't going to be reduced by a third.

Those on minimum wage should always have had all of their pay protected by the government if the business they worked for was forced to close due to coronavirus restrictions imposed on them but 80% was just about swallow able. To pledge two thirds to someone already likely to be just about keeping their heads above water is disgusting.

It will be interesting to see if those northern and midlands MP's who broke the so called red wall and got in as Tories back these Mayors. I won't hold my breath or for Andy Street the Tory Metro Mayor of the West Midlands to follow suit with those who have stood up today.

Edited October 10, 2020 by markavfc40

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Shomin Geki said:

I've been grimly following this story for the past couple of months via The Good Law Project on Twitter.  In addition to a couple of Guardian articles, I see that Bill Esterson, the Labour MP for Sefton Central, has recently commented on these seemingly indefensible findings.  But is this enough?  How is this not bigger news?  This is not a rhetorical question. 

I've found precisely one instance, so far, of this issue being brought up in parliament, yet such apparently straightforward wrongdoing, if not criminal, activity still lurks principally around the shoutier ends of social media.  Could anyone offer any suggestions as to why this ongoing story, which, if nothing else, neatly ties together many somewhat loose ends connecting Tory incompetence, venality and myopia, hasn't been seized upon by, at least, the Labour leadership?

I think it may be because the information to make a cast-iron case isn't fully available.

There are a lot of questions to be asked and answered but it may be that the Labour leadership (Starmer in particular given his professional history) thinks that it's best left to other means to discover all of the info before it can be siezed upon.

A more cynical answer might be that corruption isn't the sole preserve of the Tories (though this lot really are taking the biscuit, the biscuit box, the kitchen cupboard said box is kept in, the kitchen, the house, street and most of everything else that isn't nailed down).

[OutByEaster?]

4 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

To pledge two thirds to someone already likely to be just about keeping their heads above water is disgusting.

Playing devils advocate a bit here but, two thirds is more than the government is currently contributing isn't it?

The Govt currently pay 60% with employers asked to make up the remaining 20%.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

Playing devils advocate a bit here but, two thirds is more than the government is currently contributing isn't it?

The Govt currently pay 60% with employers asked to make up the remaining 20%.

Could the people laid off on 60-80% pay then work elsewhere for a few months to actually be better off than they would have been otherwise?

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Could the people laid off on 60-80% pay then work elsewhere for a few months to actually be better off than they would have been otherwise?

I think it depends on your company - there are companies who have allowed furloughed workers to seek other temporary work. Those people are on 80% and whatever they're picking up elsewhere.

 

[HanoiVillan]

13 hours ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I really hate our government at the moment. What kind of popularist nonsense is this? It makes no sense, there is no clear connection between the dangerous offenders, Lithuania, asylum seeking and illegally-facilitated routes. The whole tweet makes no sense. They know this and they know it plays into the hands of people who just see certain key words and think the government are "looking after our interests" or whatever.

The entire government and civil service is a total embarrassment. Makes me so angry that people are actually applauding this stuff.

I'd love to know what 'values' they abused as well.

 

[Xann]

17 minutes ago, Genie said:

Could the people laid off on 60-80% pay then work elsewhere for a few months to actually be better off than they would have been otherwise?

My company were fine with it.

A friend jumped into a truck for Hermes when we were at 80%. He'd received a large unexpected bill last year that he was struggling to pay, and he just loves driving lorries. It sorted his finances and stopped him going stir crazy at home.

[Xela]

6 hours ago, blandy said:

The Home office is historically bad at deporting foreign criminals. It's been that way for ages. This tweet for me doesn't make me angry because they've hoofed out 14 criminals - I think they should get kicked out. It just seems ridiculous when they're so bad at it and have been for decades - and you're right it's dog whistling. Just do their job efficiently, fairly and effectively.

Those 14 Lithuanians will have probably slipped back in the UK within a month. The Home Office is a shit show from top to bottom.

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, Shomin Geki said:

I've been grimly following this story for the past couple of months via The Good Law Project on Twitter.  In addition to a couple of Guardian articles, I see that Bill Esterson, the Labour MP for Sefton Central, has recently commented on these seemingly indefensible findings.  But is this enough?  How is this not bigger news?  This is not a rhetorical question. 

I've found precisely one instance, so far, of this issue being brought up in parliament, yet such apparently straightforward wrongdoing, if not criminal, activity still lurks principally around the shoutier ends of social media.  Could anyone offer any suggestions as to why this ongoing story, which, if nothing else, neatly ties together many somewhat loose ends connecting Tory incompetence, venality and myopia, hasn't been seized upon by, at least, the Labour leadership?

Thanks for bringing Esterson's comments to my attention. I would recommend people read this thread:

The company set up by the Tory associate is called PPE Medpro, and it appears to be selling products than can be purchased on Alibaba, but presumably doing so for a large mark-up:

(If you click on these tweets, there are other examples)

Edited October 11, 2020 by HanoiVillan

[snowychap]

13 hours ago, blandy said:

The Home office is historically bad at deporting foreign criminals. It's been that way for ages. This tweet for me doesn't make me angry because they've hoofed out 14 criminals - I think they should get kicked out. It just seems ridiculous when they're so bad at it and have been for decades - and you're right it's dog whistling. Just do their job efficiently, fairly and effectively.

That's massively missing the main point being made by @Lichfield Dean and others responding to it on twitter.

You're right, though - it's dog-whistling. Unfortunately, your response also suggests it's very effective dog-whistling, too (given your usual position politically).

Edited October 11, 2020 by snowychap

[blandy]

40 minutes ago, snowychap said:

your response also suggests it's very effective dog-whistling, too (given your usual position politically).

Does it? Ok. I’ll clarify then. I think hoofing out convicted criminals, following due process is one aspect of their job. Them tweeting that they have hoofed 14 out is nothing to boast about  - statistically it’s such a small number as to be insignificant to anyone but those involved. But nevertheless if a Lithuanian convicted fraudster is deported that’s fine and good by me.

The second thing, linking hoofing out criminals and linking that to asylum seekers is dog-whistling. That’s not fine by me. It’s yet another sign of the home office being horrible, of Patel being horrible, just another day in Toryland.

so foreign crims- good riddance*, home office - sort your act out, Patel - grow a heart and a brain and a conscience.

 

*there may be some circs where deportation is not the right course of action.

[Genie]

8 hours ago, Xann said:

My company were fine with it.

A friend jumped into a truck for Hermes when we were at 80%. He'd received a large unexpected bill last year that he was struggling to pay, and he just loves driving lorries. It sorted his finances and stopped him going stir crazy at home.

It sounds like it could be a fairly positive scenario for a lot of people.

If you can afford to live on 60-80% without having to go to work then you’ve got an extra long holiday with pay.

If you need to go out to work and do 40 hours you can find yourself on 160% - 180% pay for 6 months for just 40 hours work.