StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Genie said: I really hope Boris tells Sturgeon to do one with her independence referendum request. After the last 3 years of churn and uncertainty the last thing we need is Scotland throwing a fresh spanner into the works, border controls, currency, freedom of movement, businesses etc. Absolutely not the right time for the UK. Not being inflammatory here, but isn't the bolded exactly why Scotland want to leave? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Not being inflammatory here, but isn't the bolded exactly why Scotland want to leave? I don’t blame them for wanting to leave, but it’s a bloody awful time for the rest of the UK to have more uncertainty. As Boris is in charge I hope he advises NS that it can’t be entertained at the moment and just get it off the table. If he says ok, have another referendum there will be hundred of questions that won’t have answers. **** it, I’m sick to death of that situation. Edited December 19, 2019 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, Genie said: I don’t blame them for wanting to leave, but it’s a bloody awful time for the rest of the UK to have more uncertainty. As Boris is in charge I hope he advises NS that it can’t be entertained at the moment and just get it off the table. Isn't this just hugely selfish? I can only imagine Boris Johnson taking this approach will lead to more clamour and then Catalonia style protests tbh. 'Held against our will because it will hurt the UK' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Isn't this just hugely selfish? I can only imagine Boris Johnson taking this approach will lead to more clamour and then Catalonia style protests tbh. 'Held against our will because it will hurt the UK' Not really. I would hope that they would agree it’s an awful time to cover the UK into more chaos. Need to get Brexit done (sorry) then see the lie of the land. Never know, we might get a reasonable deal and Scotland might find it too much of a risk to break away (again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Genie said: Not really. I would hope that they would agree it’s an awful time to cover the UK into more chaos. Need to get Brexit done (sorry) then see the lie of the land. Never know, we might get a reasonable deal and Scotland might find it too much of a risk to break away (again). Why should they agree to that, if they're being held here against their will? Sorry, I just don't follow your train of thought here. If, they don't want to be part of the UK anymore, they won't care about the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Why should they agree to that, if they're being held here against their will? Sorry, I just don't follow your train of thought here. If, they don't want to be part of the UK anymore, they won't care about the timing. Not against their will is it? They voted and said remain part of the union. It's against the SNPs will. Edited December 19, 2019 by Seat68 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 the last poll (9th Dec) on what Scotland thinks had 51% saying there shouldn't be another referendum in the next few years , only once has that dipped under 50% since Jan 2017 The SNP vote share increased amongst remainers by 9% but dropped by 8 % amongst leavers .... so Brexit could well be the deciding issue on if the demand is sufficient for the Scots to start marching on the streets for "freedom" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, Seat68 said: Not against their will is it? They voted and said remain part of the union. It's against the SNPs will. In a totally different political situation. Times have changed. They voted to remain part of the UK, and the EU. Now we're leaving the EU and the SNP have 90% of the seats in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Not sure why or where this attitude of 'you made your choice, live with it' has come from in recent years. Democracy is fluid. In a different set of circumstances it's undemocratic to prevent people from even answering the question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: In a totally different political situation. Times have changed. They voted to remain part of the UK, and the EU. Now we're leaving the EU and the SNP have 90% of the seats in Scotland. Agreed but I don't see a rerun happening, mainly as the Tories have nothing to gain, it would also open up, potentially other votes, EU, AV etc. Essentially with the balance of power Boris can tell Scotland to get tae **** and lose nothing as they don't have the seats anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Just now, Seat68 said: Agreed but I don't see a rerun happening, mainly as the Tories have nothing to gain, it would also open up, potentially other votes, EU, AV etc. Essentially with the balance of power Boris can tell Scotland to get tae **** and lose nothing as they don't have the seats anyway. Which is profoundly undemocratic. Not exactly new, but it will just fuel the narrative for independence tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Which is profoundly undemocratic. Not exactly new, but it will just fuel the narrative for independence tbh. You may be reading more into my post than is intended. My point is more so the SNP control Scotland, the Tories don’t, but are now doing quite nicely without them, and their votes. The SNP want a rerun of a fairly recent referendum, but have no power currently to bring that about. They are essentially being Scrappy Doo. For clarity, I don’t particularly want referendum reruns, but as I have nothing in this one, if the Scotch want a rerun, if amongst the people there is a hunger to go down the path, then I personally say go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 10 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Do they have a reference for the claim that Yaxley-Lennon has joined? Because the Indy article doesn't say so, and I would have thought that the Tories would not have admitted him. They haven't referenced it, but I assume it's based on reports a few days ago that he messaged his followers saying that he'd joined. The BF chief of staff displayed a photo of his (the BF person)'s membership card, but I'm not aware of any similar proof regarding Y-L. I assume anyone sensible in the tory party wouldn't want him, and if he has managed to join, you'd expect him to be removed simply because of his profile. They allow online applications, but they are subject to later approval, so it's possible that he might have joined (ie applied) online and that this was the basis for his claim - I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Seat68 said: You may be reading more into my post than is intended. My point is more so the SNP control Scotland, the Tories don’t, but are now doing quite nicely without them, and their votes. The SNP want a rerun of a fairly recent referendum, but have no power currently to bring that about. They are essentially being Scrappy Doo. For clarity, I don’t particularly want referendum reruns, but as I have nothing in this one, if the Scotch want a rerun, if amongst the people there is a hunger to go down the path, then I personally say go for it. Making a more general point than one aimed at you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Isn't this just hugely selfish? I can only imagine Boris Johnson taking this approach will lead to more clamour and then Catalonia style protests tbh. 'Held against our will because it will hurt the UK' There’s currently no majority for indyref2 in Scotland. Given a majority oppose it, why would Johnson saying no change their minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 53 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Agreed but I don't see a rerun happening, mainly as the Tories have nothing to gain, it would also open up, potentially other votes, EU, AV etc. Essentially with the balance of power Boris can tell Scotland to get tae **** and lose nothing as they don't have the seats anyway. Tbh the Tories have a lot to gain by the Scotch leaving as they will be in power for eternity most likely. They won't offer a referendum though out of principle plus I'm hoping we never have a referendum for anything again in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 Ah the 'if we stop mentioning it it will go away' tactic Sadly, it'll probably work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Tbh the Tories have a lot to gain by the Scotch leaving as they will be in power for eternity most likely. They won't offer a referendum though out of principle plus I'm hoping we never have a referendum for anything again in my lifetime. I think Cummings is quite keen on them so if he stays in charge - sorry, in post - then you might well see more of them. Don't be at all surprised if one of suggestions the government will require from their Commission is an increase in direct democracy (carefully selelcted and choreographed by the incumbent government, of course). Edited December 19, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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