chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 I see that other pet project, the new nuclear power station at Hinckley is now a further 15 months late and nearly £3 Billion over budget. It’ll now be 2026 before it can provide us with electricity at three times the cost of offshore wind. Shocked. Absolutely shocked, never saw the time delays and cost hikes coming. Turns out its trickier than they thought to build a nuclear power station on estuary mud flats, even after they waived the need for those pesky environmental impact requirements. Just as well we cancelled research in to wave and tidal energy. We need reliable energy sources, not rely on the tide that might not always come in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 57 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It’ll now be 2026 before it can provide us with electricity at three times the cost of offshore wind. can I be that person ? ( I'll take that as a yes ) Official data was that offshore wind projects due to generate power in 2021-22 were awarded contracts at £74.75 per megawatt hour, dropping to £57.50 in 2025 Hinkley is £92.50 per megawatt hour, , so not even double , I believe when Hinkley was awarded the cost of offshore wind power was actually higher than Nuclear , its only due to recent tech advances that wind power has become cheaper (since around 2017) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 19 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: can I be that person ? ( I'll take that as a yes ) Official data was that offshore wind projects due to generate power in 2021-22 were awarded contracts at £74.75 per megawatt hour, dropping to £57.50 in 2025 Hinkley is £92.50 per megawatt hour, , so not even double , I believe when Hinkley was awarded the cost of offshore wind power was actually higher than Nuclear , its only due to recent tech advances that wind power has become cheaper (since around 2017) Now then, on to the meat course... There was already a clear trajectory of downward costs for a relatively undeveloped industry, everyone knew the price was falling and the rate of fall was increasing. Offshore wind cost has gone beyond being in the 50’s or the 40’s its now in the £30’s and still falling. I’ll give you a crazy crazy out there prediction, ‘cos I’m clearly a massive expert the likes of which the government could only dream of tapping in to. That nuclear power station won’t be ready in 2026 and the cost over run will be more than £3 billion by the end. Offshore wind, in 2027 when Hinckley comes on stream, will be about a quarter of the price. Oh, and one more minor consideration, if a Chinese designed nuclear power station goes horribly wrong just once in the next 30 years due to software, or cock up, or terrorism, or tsunami or whatever, that’s quite an issue. If a wind farm goes wrong, not so much. Issues Fixed - Bicks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 11 hours ago, tonyh29 said: I’m fairly sure from his advance tweets and the tip off that Mr Activist man did want a visit from Boris ? That pic came from an altogether different set of activists, Tone - Anarchists 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) Let's hope Bercow selects both of these. Edit: Ah, those are the two UQs that have been selected. Edited September 25, 2019 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, snowychap said: Of course they can, given that Boris has a minority government now, if they can pull together enough people to support 1 person then they can tell Johnson to shove it and invite the Queen to appoint that person. Fixed Term Parliament Act gives them the opportunity to do so (though I suspect it was there before anyway). The only issue with that is getting them to agree on the person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Of course they can, given that Boris has a minority government now, if they can pull together enough people to support 1 person then they can tell Johnson to shove it and invite the Queen to appoint that person. Fixed Term Parliament Act gives them the opportunity to do so (though I suspect it was there before anyway). The only issue with that is getting them to agree on the person... Once they're down the FTPA route, there is a risk of GE - however much they might agree on a person beforehand, an actual vote under the Act would need to be passed. If there were some sort of change of minds in the interim (and confidence wasn't expressed by the House of Commons in the new government) then the end result (after the 14 day period) would be a GE. Edit: It would appear that the opinion is the one already mooted that a non FTPA vote could be passed that the House of Commons would have confidence in someone else leading a new Government and, on the back of that, the Queen could be called upon to dismiss the current PM and appoint, as the new one, the person in whom the House of Commons had just expressed their confidence. Edited September 25, 2019 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tonyh29 Posted September 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Oh, and one more minor consideration, if a Chinese designed nuclear power station goes horribly wrong just once in the next 30 years due to software, or cock up, or terrorism, or tsunami or whatever, that’s quite an issue. If a wind farm goes wrong, not so much. meh , i watched Chernobyl only 31 people died , a spinning out of control wind turbine could easily take out that many sunbathers on a beach , not to mention the effects of the sub sonic noise those wind turbines have on people . this message was brought to you by Troy McClure , who you may remember from educational videos such as Lead Paint: Delicious But Deadly 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 25, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: if a Chinese designed nuclear power station French. French designed. Oh, cripes! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted September 25, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, snowychap said: Once they're down the FTPA route, there is a risk of GE - however much they might agree on a person beforehand, an actual vote under the Act would need to be passed. If there were some sort of change of minds in the interim (and confidence wasn't expressed by the House of Commons in the new government) then the end result (after the 14 day period) would be a GE. Nah, I am afraid not quite right. Should have explained under the FTPA, if a VONC is called (and successful), then Boris has 14 days to try and sort it out. However, during this time, anyone can invite the Queen to appoint them as PM so they can form a government instead. If they can prove they have the majority support of the House of Commons, she must appoint them to run the government. If they don't have the numbers, then they don't get appointed. It may be that they are thinking they could just go to the queen and ask them to appoint but not sure on this. Still think it involves a VONC but could be wrong... In essence they are ways to do it, but until they actually can agree on someone and get a majority, its a lot of semantics! Edited September 25, 2019 by cyrusr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 25, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2019 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Hinkley is £92.50 per megawatt hour, so not even double Last week wind electric was going for under 40 quid a megawatthour, and by the time Hinkley comes on line, if it ever does, windy watts will be even cheaper still. I think there's a massive issue with the reactor design as well. Got to be a good chance the thing will get canned. I posted this in the wrong thread because I'm a nidiot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, blandy said: Last week wind electric was going for under 40 quid a megawatthour, and by the time Hinkley comes on line, if it ever does, windy watts will be even cheaper still. I think there's a massive issue with the reactor design as well. Got to be a good chance the thing will get canned. I posted this in the wrong thread because I'm a nidiot those contracts come into effect in 4 years time , current contracts are at £57.50 tbf I don't think it was you in this instance , i think we all started in that thread ... but that said I'm off to see if the other thread has now been deleted Edited September 25, 2019 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, blandy said: French. French designed. Oh, cripes! Financed and built jointly by France and China? The first two EPR’s have been built in China by China General Nuclear Power Group. Built and operated and financed by the Chinese on the express promise they don’t pinch any of the tech. The French weren’t overly happy with the safety of that design and have since tweeked it, whilst also incorporating ‘cost savings’. The French nuclear watchdog, ASN, have reviewed the new safety features and savings and described the new model EPR as ‘mostly satisfactory’. Mostly satisfactory. That’s good enough for me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 25, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, blandy said: French. French designed. Oh, crepes! FTFY 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Nah, I am afraid not quite right. Should have explained under the FTPA, if a VONC is called (and successful), then Boris has 14 days to try and sort it out. However, during this time, anyone can invite the Queen to appoint them as PM so they can form a government instead. If they can prove they have the majority support of the House of Commons, she must appoint them to run the government. If they don't have the numbers, then they don't get appointed. I'm sorry but what happens during the 14 day period is and has been very much argued about by all sorts (of constiutional and government experts) since the Act was passed. There is no precise process of what must happen during a period following the Government losing a vote of no confidence other than, in order to close the process within the FTPA (and thus avoid dissolution and a General Election) after a Vote of Confidence has been lost, someone has to win a vote of confidence (in the specific terms as per subsection 5 of the section entitled 'Early parliamentary general election') so as to avoid a GE occurring. What I therefore said in previous post holds, i.e.: Should a motion in the form 'That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government' (subsection 4) be passed then the only way to prevent a General Election happening is for someone to win a motion in the form 'That this House has confidence in Her Majesty's Government' (subsection 5). What happens in the interim is irrelevant to the point I was making, really. Once a motion in the form of subsection 4 (as above) is passed, if the period of 14 days after the day on which it is passed ends without a motion in the form of subsection 5 is passed then an early parliamentary general election is to take place. Thus, once the FTPA process is invoked then there is a risk of a GE. Edited September 25, 2019 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, cyrusr said: It may be that they are thinking they could just go to the queen and ask them to appoint but not sure on this. Still think it involves a VONC but could be wrong.. As per my edit above: 30 minutes ago, snowychap said: Edit: It would appear that the opinion is the one already mooted that a non FTPA vote could be passed that the House of Commons would have confidence in someone else leading a new Government and, on the back of that, the Queen could be called upon to dismiss the current PM and appoint, as the new one, the person in whom the House of Commons had just expressed their confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: those contracts come into effect in 4 years time , current contracts are at £57.50 tbf I don't think it was you in this instance , i think we all started in that thread ... but that said I'm off to see if the other thread has now been deleted It’s almost like the government could do with the advice of experts. Experts like me, I could tell them today that nuclear projects always take longer and cost more. I could tell them that in the future, renewable energy will be cheaper. To be fair, who could have predicted that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Financed and built jointly by France and China? The first two EPR’s have been built in China by China General Nuclear Power Group. Built and operated and financed by the Chinese on the express promise they don’t pinch any of the tech. The French weren’t overly happy with the safety of that design and have since tweeked it, whilst also incorporating ‘cost savings’. The French nuclear watchdog, ASN, have reviewed the new safety features and savings and described the new model EPR as ‘mostly satisfactory’. Mostly satisfactory. That’s good enough for me. I think any kind of complex "factory" will be improvied and developed over time. Its completely normal. You'd also expect a watchdog to pick out a few things that could be done better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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