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The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

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So you guys really seem to be heading for a No Deal exit? Is that the most plausible outcome at the moment? How will that effect your economy? I imagine there would be huge consequences in terms of, trade defecits, stagnation in the job market, plenty of capital being moved out of the country,  and a pund sterling that plummets even further? 

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Just now, Skruff said:

So you guys really seem to be heading for a No Deal exit? Is that the most plausible outcome at the moment? How will that effect your economy? I imagine there would be huge consequences in terms of, trade defecits, stagnation in the job market, plenty of capital being moved out of the country,  and a pund sterling that plummets even further? 

Yes, and all that is the fault of the people who didn't vote to leave then and don't want to leave now. 

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5 minutes ago, ChrisVillan said:

Yes, and all that is the fault of the people who didn't vote to leave then and don't want to leave now. 

Sorry, care to elaborate on that? Is that the narrative that's being painted by the politicians pushing for the exit?(I imagine it's a satirical comment I don't understand) 

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1 hour ago, Skruff said:

Sorry, care to elaborate on that? Is that the narrative that's being painted by the politicians pushing for the exit?(I imagine it's a satirical comment I don't understand) 

Yep, you understand perfectly.

It's been an underlying theme since before the referendum itself that this obviously catastrophically damaging thing would only be catastrophically damaging because of the people who don't want it not wanting it hard enough.

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2 hours ago, Skruff said:

So you guys really seem to be heading for a No Deal exit? Is that the most plausible outcome at the moment? How will that effect your economy? I imagine there would be huge consequences in terms of, trade defecits, stagnation in the job market, plenty of capital being moved out of the country,  and a pund sterling that plummets even further? 

The PM believes that the EU know we can’t have no Deal because parliament won’t allow it , thus no need for them to budge and the only option is Mays deal that parliament rejected 3 times or presumably withdraw article 50 ... PM is now trying to show the EU he’s serious about getting a new deal by doing all he can to get no deal , Parliament don’t like this idea so will now do all they can to make Corbyn temporary PM  and he can save us all with his plan 984 with plan 985 due sometime around 14:00 today 

In terms of capital It’s complicated as whilst people talk about capital being moved out the country on one hand , they also point to the snapping up of a Canadian company on the FTSE as proof that U.K. companies are being taken over because the £ is so low . Investment in the U.K. is still high , indeed investment in tech companies is at an all time high , some of that investment is due to sterling being low but not all .

It wasn’t that long ago that we were going to have empty skies as all planes would be grounded , then it was empty supermarkets , then it was supermarkets filled with chlorinated chicken then it was the NHS being sold to America If it’s been on Twitter then it’s almost certainly true and it’s gonna happen , if you suggest anything to the conterary then you believe in Unicorns ...

thats not to suggest No Deal is good just a summary that will be met by a witty response of “yeah but diesel “

 

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1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

It wasn’t that long ago that we were going to have empty skies as all planes would be grounded , then it was empty supermarkets , then it was supermarkets filled with chlorinated chicken then it was the NHS being sold to America If it’s been on Twitter then it’s almost certainly true and it’s gonna happen , if you suggest anything to the conterary then you believe in Unicorns ...

 I must have missed where we actually left the EU.

Stop being disingenuous. 

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2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

PM is now trying to show the EU he’s serious about getting a new deal by doing all he can to get no deal

The EU have made clear time and again that their position is based on the long term interests of their members (obviously) rather than fear of the UK committing a massive act of self-harm and them suffering some collateral damage as part of that.  They have said, and it is reasonable to believe, that their position on a deal is that what has been offered is all we are going to get, as long as May's "red lines" remain, and that they are not going to change their position because of our supposed show of determination.  It is plain to see that Johnson knows this, that his lies and bluster are meaningless, and that he knows that they know he's bullshitting.

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

In terms of capital It’s complicated as whilst people talk about capital being moved out the country on one hand , they also point to the snapping up of a Canadian company on the FTSE as proof that U.K. companies are being taken over because the £ is so low . Investment in the U.K. is still high , indeed investment in tech companies is at an all time high , some of that investment is due to sterling being low but not all .

We are often told that foreign investment in the UK is booming, and that this signifies confidence in the great job our government is doing.  In fact, we've been selling off our national assets like transport, water and so on; firms have been taken over so that many more are now foreign-owned, with the benefits of ownership going to others, not us; and lots of foreign money has been sunk in things like property, pushing prices up to the detriment of domestic buyers and renters, and ensuring a profit stream to absentee rentiers.

This is not a success story, more like a fire sale.

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22 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

 I must have missed where we actually left the EU.

Stop being disingenuous. 

I think you missed the point  , maybe i need a witty picture of people on a beach

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25 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I think you missed the point  , maybe i need a witty picture of people on a beach

How about this one?

The storyline might be a parable of a no-deal brexit.

Lord-of-the-Flies.jpg&f=1

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1 minute ago, peterms said:

How about this one?

The storyline might be a parable of a no-deal brexit.

Lord-of-the-Flies.jpg&f=1

we can eat chlorinated Piggy

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29 minutes ago, peterms said:

The EU have made clear time and again that their position is based on the long term interests of their members (obviously) rather than fear of the UK committing a massive act of self-harm and them suffering some collateral damage as part of that.  They have said, and it is reasonable to believe, that their position on a deal is that what has been offered is all we are going to get, as long as May's "red lines" remain, and that they are not going to change their position because of our supposed show of determination.  It is plain to see that Johnson knows this, that his lies and bluster are meaningless, and that he knows that they know he's bullshitting.

We are often told that foreign investment in the UK is booming, and that this signifies confidence in the great job our government is doing.  In fact, we've been selling off our national assets like transport, water and so on; firms have been taken over so that many more are now foreign-owned, with the benefits of ownership going to others, not us; and lots of foreign money has been sunk in things like property, pushing prices up to the detriment of domestic buyers and renters, and ensuring a profit stream to absentee rentiers.

This is not a success story, more like a fire sale.

We were selling off our transport and water to overseas companies  long before Brexit came about

Re  - point one the end game is fast approaching, so we will see how that plays out .. Bercow is obviously going to do all he can tomorrow to stop the governement , but assuming he / they fail then we move onto the stage of finding out if anyone wants to revisit the agrement  , there are some rumblings that people will , there are of course also rumblings of no thye won't

 

I don't think anyone has ever claimed foreign investment is down to the great job our government is doing  .. I think though it's been cited as evidence contrary to remainers view point that everyone will abandon the UK  , but why does everything have to be one extreme or the other  , why can't foreign companies investing in the UK be a little bit down to the  good value due to the low £ and a little of long term investment in what they see to be a strong (and stable :) ) long term investment .... Investors have speculated on growth economies for years , go back 40 years to the emergence of the tiger economies  or more recently the Indian economy which is currently the fastest growing economy   ,  the UK still has growth potential , which is why people want to invest in it   ... Contrary to witty images , I don't have my head in the sand on Brexit , I'm seeing some negatives in it , I'm seeing a lot of stuff I don't like in it .....but I'm also seeing some positives in it which is where i differ from most of you on here

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3 hours ago, peterms said:

His role is to uphold the core principle of the constitution regarding parliament, ie that it and not the executive is sovereign.  If the executive seeks to upend the constitution, whether directly or by procedural chicanery, then his role is to intervene.

What is astonishing is that so many conservatives, who see themselves as proud upholders of the British constitution, should be so ready to sell it out for a perceived political gain, and to attack him for doing what they should be doing.  Nauseating.

Absolutely right.

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5 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Absolutely right.

On the point about conservatives presenting themselves as defenders of the constitution but being motivated by other considerations, I just saw this comment about a comparison with earlier times:

Quote

...British democracy is sustained by a number of polite fictions: the neutrality of the monarch, the Crown in Parliament, the parity of the UK’s four nations, the binding stricture of convention, the sovereignty of parliament, the equal power of everyone’s vote. They are now being put to the flame by the government, and in the longer term it may not be possible to conjure the myths back from the ashes. Marx once remarked that the repeal of the Corn Laws saw the Tories of his day abandon every piety about the constitution and the church and reveal themselves as defenders, above all, of their rents. Johnson’s assault on Parliament and willingness to trample constitutional niceties is a similar moment of clear-eyed revelation: the Conservative Party has been denuded of its shrouds of patriotic pomp and tinsel. It could be a spur to find a better foundation for democracy than our worn-out fictions.

 

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Seems yesterdays news and the strong arm tactics are going down like a big Plant and Page with the loyal troops

 

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3 hours ago, peterms said:

His role is to uphold the core principle of the constitution regarding parliament,

Didn't he rule on the Grieve amendment  against the advice of the commons clerk and then refuse to publish the advice he received ?

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7 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

The PM believes that the EU know we can’t have no Deal because parliament won’t allow it , thus no need for them to budge and the only option is Mays deal that parliament rejected 3 times or presumably withdraw article 50 ... PM is now trying to show the EU he’s serious about getting a new deal by doing all he can to get no deal , Parliament don’t like this idea so will now do all they can to make Corbyn temporary PM  and he can save us all with his plan 984 with plan 985 due sometime around 14:00 today 

In terms of capital It’s complicated as whilst people talk about capital being moved out the country on one hand , they also point to the snapping up of a Canadian company on the FTSE as proof that U.K. companies are being taken over because the £ is so low . Investment in the U.K. is still high , indeed investment in tech companies is at an all time high , some of that investment is due to sterling being low but not all .

It wasn’t that long ago that we were going to have empty skies as all planes would be grounded , then it was empty supermarkets , then it was supermarkets filled with chlorinated chicken then it was the NHS being sold to America If it’s been on Twitter then it’s almost certainly true and it’s gonna happen , if you suggest anything to the conterary then you believe in Unicorns ...

thats not to suggest No Deal is good just a summary that will be met by a witty response of “yeah but diesel “

 

So it's more or less a game of chicken going on between Borris and the EU?

If it all ends up in a no deal exit. That would surely strangle your economy, for a few years?  Regardless of foreign investments being made. You're basically cutting yourself off from half of your current market? 

What's the general consensus on the consequences of a hard exit among UK economist's, analyst's and statisticians? What's being said behind all the noise of media, self serving politicians and people arguing whether or not this was a good idea? 

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