NurembergVillan Posted August 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2019 The government conducted research that showed chicken shops were a recruitment hotbed for drug gangs, often buying food for kids to get friendly with them before taking them under their wing (pun intended - you're welcome). They've taken that information and gone absolutely Route 1 with trying to respond to it. Useless clearings in the woods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted August 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, a m ole said: Home office cordoned off with report of a stabbing. Wow. Priti Patel finally showing her true colours. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Priti Patel finally showing her true colours. she claimed that, in criticising the campaign, Diane Abbott is “playing politics with knife crime”. Will be interesting to see how that comment ages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted August 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2019 48 minutes ago, colhint said: Funny old paper the guardian isn't it. They run this 3 days ago drug gangs recruit children Then a few days later invite David Lammy to say it's racist The story discusses gangs targetting kids who have been excluded from school, or who don't have youth clubs to go to any more, hanging round fast food places and being drawn in to gang subculture by giving them free food. A sensible approach to tackling that might be to get the kids back in school, reopen the youth facilities, start to address the poverty that makes chicken from a drug dealer attractive compared to the alternative of not eating, and so on. Instead, we have a message on a carton. Instead of policy, funding, and political priority, we have marketing and PR. Instead of engagement and listening, we have condescenscion and patronising. Instead of long-term action to find solutions, we have press releases. And we have an approach which many in the black community are today saying they find dismissive, uncaring, and racist. This from the government, and the department, that has recently been slated for the "Go home" messaging campaign, and its response to Windrush and Grenfell. It's not a run of bad luck, is it? It's how they operate. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 But this type of message must work to some degree though, mustn't it? The Governments of both colours and the EU use it on loads of stuff , from high sugar /fat foodstuff to how bad cigarettes are. They wouldn't do that if they thought it made no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, colhint said: But this type of message must work to some degree though, mustn't it? The Governments of both colours and the EU use it on loads of stuff , from high sugar /fat foodstuff to how bad cigarettes are. They wouldn't do that if they thought it made no difference. Health warnings on the things that cause the need for health warnings are an entirely different thing to... don't do this shit on a takeaway box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, colhint said: Funny old paper the guardian isn't it. They run this 3 days ago drug gangs recruit children Then a few days later invite David Lammy to say it's racist The Graun is satire these days, the opinion section is absolute pathetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, bickster said: Health warnings on the things that cause the need for health warnings are an entirely different thing to... don't do this shit on a takeaway box I agree to a point but why do all these people seem to agree that getting a message on packaging works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, colhint said: I agree to a point but why do all these people seem to agree that getting a message on packaging works. because they have zero imagination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welnik Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The Graun is satire these days, the opinion section is absolute pathetic. And yet some people here use it as if it's the absolute truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 But it's not just this government Labour introduced some and so did the EU and by default 28 other counties seem to think it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted August 15, 2019 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2019 Just now, welnik said: And yet some people here use it as if it's the absolute truth! Could you point these people out please? I guarantee you won't find one 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 15, 2019 Just now, colhint said: But it's not just this government Labour introduced some and so did the EU and by default 28 other counties seem to think it works It works more at the point of doing the action. e.g. opening a pack of cigs etc Does anyone really think it's going to work when the future knife crime hoodlum is having some chicken at some random point in the past? It would also need to be on the knife but I guess the battle is already lost at that point. What would the message be. "Stabbing people can kill?" erm... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, bickster said: because they have zero imagination Bickster falls victim to the power of political advertising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, welnik said: And yet some people here use it as if it's the absolute truth! It's easy to refer to for news items and articles because they aren't behind a paywall and no matter how low it has fallen, it's not The Sun/The Mirror/The Mail. That shouldn't in any way be read by anyone that people quoting it view what is in it or on its website as 'the absolute truth' (to do so would be bizarre). No single media outlet should or could ever be seen as that - not even The Times when it used to regarded as a paper of record (I accept that even that term/idea is questionable). Edited August 15, 2019 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 36 minutes ago, colhint said: I agree to a point but why do all these people seem to agree that getting a message on packaging works. A warning on a pack of cigarettes is a message about the health implications of a substance the target audience is about to consume, intended to prompt them repeatedly to consider the risk of consuming the substance. If the message on the chicken carton was about the poor welfare standards of the chicken used, or the additives manufactured to make the food more appealing and addictive, or the disadvantages of a diet heavy in deep-fried food, it would be similar. The target audience in both cases would be the people about to commit the act regarded as risky or with other negative consequences. As it is, the message and the place chosen to display it convey that the people who frequent fried chicken shops in certain areas are likely to be knife-wielding thugs, so likely in fact that it's worth displaying the communication to everyone using the shop. It's very easy to see why members of the local communities feel disrespected, disparaged, stereotyped and slandered by this marketing. It's very hard to see why anyone senior enough to have approved this wouldn't have the common sense, awareness or basic empathy to understand this. And when this ad campaign comes on the back of having closed down youth facilities, created additional poverty, tolerated lots of school exclusions, and dismissed the advice and lobbying of those in the community working to tackle violence, it's compounding the insult. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 6 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: Problem with this argument for me Tony, is that if you remove twitter from the equation all together it's still a racial stereotype. Take 'the beast' argument from an emotive on topic for instance, I stay well away from that one, I get the argument (that it's denegrative and seemingly applied disproportionately) and I don't necessarily disagree but it's also not as cut and dried as that imho and I've never seen much evidence past people's perceptions. It can be and is applied to people of all colours for one, but the perception may not be borne out by the facts and figures. I'd like to see figures on proportion of athletes described as 'a beast' split by ethnicity and then run against proportion of footballers who are big muscly bar stewards like Mings and then against the number of players by ethnicity and so on. I feel with that if there was a white boxer with the Joshua physique he would quickly be labelled 'a beast' and so on. There's a grey area open for discussion. Perhaps your point about Twitter might be better suited to that sort of discussion where your points would, in my opinion, carry some weight of validity. But language doesn't follow simple rules. It also evolves. As a British person I've often been referred to as a 'Brit' and that abbreviation of my country's name causes me no offence whatsoever. My mate from Pakistan however.......And presumably we understand and accept why that is. (And hopefully without the faux outrage at 'not being allowed to say things anymore'). If the 4 letter abbreviation has been used hatefully, denegratively in a historical context what's fine for one person (us Brits) is not therefore alright across the board. Same goes for the issue raised about the Chinese restaurants in Worcester and the language used to refer to them recently in another thread. Deemed by who and successful in what way? (You don't honestly believe this do you?) No, it IS a racial stereotype. Some guy on twitter hasn't decided that for anyone. The America of the Jim Crow era and the ruling classes that dealt in slavery decided it's fate in that regard. The thing that 'someone has decided' off their own bat was to base this campaign around fried chicken products. And is that, as a standalone issue a racist move? Putting an advert in a fried chicken box? Well, no, of course not. But to ignore the realities of the situation in London where stop and search powers are used disproportionately against people from ethnic minorities for example, it's hardly a massive stretch to see why the human beings targetted in such a way might wonder why (and I say again) THE ONLY takeaway food that could possibly cause offense was chosen? Do it in pizza boxes/McDonalds boxes/chip paper and there's literally no issue. The only one that could possibly cause offense was the only one chosen. If people feel that is by mistake or oversight I respectfully disagree. That any small trial did not receive similar media coverage is not surprising in the slightest, was almost definitely by design and has no bearing whatsoever on the point of racial stereotyping. The idea that it happened before and no one made a fuss therefore it adds weight to my its-not-racist argument is simply laughable. You're just being silly now and quite frankly, you're better than this. When that's applicable I'll be agreeing with you. Probably in the form of a Steve Hughes clip. I think that's about as deep as the justification behind this campaign gets. 0/10 WNB I would say your campaign would be just as effective as this one will be. I don't think you needed the last 7 words. Quite a long post hence it warrants an acknowledgement, but I’ve just landed in Belgrade after a 2 hour delay that involved s few gallons of gin and I’m off out now to binge drink for England. theres stiff I don’t agree with in your post and maybe I’ll come back to it after my inevitable detox but suffice to say I’m not defending racism I’m just not seeing The same racial stereotyping in this campaign that you are ... you present a reasoned argument for your view but I think you’re reading far too much into it , Dr Probably summed it up well , it’s not racist but it’s a shit idea now excuse me whilst I go attend the beer festival Serbia have kindly put on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: Quite a long post hence it warrants an acknowledgement, but I’ve just landed in Belgrade after a 2 hour delay that involved s few gallons of gin and I’m off out now to binge drink for England. theres stiff I don’t agree with in your post and maybe I’ll come back to it after my inevitable detox but suffice to say I’m not defending racism I’m just not seeing The same racial stereotyping in this campaign that you are ... you present a reasoned argument for your view but I think you’re reading far too much into it , Dr Probably summed it up well , it’s not racist but it’s a shit idea now excuse me whilst I go attend the beer festival Serbia have kindly put on ... You carry on chap have a great weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 19, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 19, 2019 First they came for the children... Quote Priti Patel announces curfews for 12-year-olds among tough new knife crime laws i News 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Does this mean that home deliveries will be needed so that the kids can read the message in the chicken containers? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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