blandy Posted January 7, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted January 7, 2016 5 hours ago, tonyh29 said: if he can plant a tree that grows the £185bn to buy back the utility companies alone then good luck to him and plant some more trees whilst you are at it Jeremy ...more so as doing so would be incompatible ( or even illegal ? ) under current EU law so his buy back means we have told Europe to Jog on and gone it alone It didn't seem very illegal when northern Rock, lloyds , RBS etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, blandy said: It didn't seem very illegal when northern Rock, lloyds , RBS etc.... Worst ahhh but ever .... I seem to recall that Europe did stick it's nose in at the time though ? the interesting thing for me is that all the banks that were brought back were then sold off again as soon as humanly possible ..... So Corbyn buys them back with his magic beans and the next PM sells them off again and all our debt problems disappear .... Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 5 hours ago, tonyh29 said: if he can plant a tree that grows the £185bn... Oh god, not more of the 'magic money tree' trope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 My someone is grumpy today its a figure of speech , I'm sure the £185bn is down the back of a sofa really and not on a tree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: its a figure of speech , I'm sure the £185bn is down the back of a sofa really and not on a tree On a magic money tree, down the back of the sofa or in the forecasts of the 'independent' OBR. It's not a problem with the figure of speech, it's with the thinking behind its use. Edited January 7, 2016 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted January 7, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2016 13 hours ago, snowychap said: Apparently, Osborne has been telling us that the economy faces a 'cocktail of risks'. I have him down as the cock part of that. When Osbourne talks about 'the economy' I always think of him meaning the part of the economy that matters at citibank, not the part that matters to people who live with a wage and a mortgage and buy stuff off shelves. There's a cocktail of risks that mean the profits of a major international hedge fund might fall 3% whilst everyone in the country feels slightly better off - he's there to make sure this nightmare situation doesn't happen. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 8, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2016 10 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Worst ahhh but ever .... I seem to recall that Europe did stick it's nose in at the time though ? the interesting thing for me is that all the banks that were brought back were then sold off again as soon as humanly possible ..... So Corbyn buys them back with his magic beans and the next PM sells them off again and all our debt problems disappear .... Simples Hardly, as it was labour that also did the banks, T. They're still not all sold off, either. My point was that if it's a bank that "needs rescuing" then no one blinks an eyelid, but if it's equally racketeering EDF, then you get all kinds of alarmism. It won't nt happen because half of them are now owned by the state anyway....just that the state is Germany or France etc, and they'd "retaliate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I find it difficult to grasp the trope that Britain is going through a period of devastating austerity when it is announced that the UK broke the record for the number of new cars sold in a year (2014). 2.63m new cars sold, hardly seems a symptom of austerity, or lack of confidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: I find it difficult to grasp the trope that Britain is going through a period of devastating austerity when it is announced that the UK broke the record for the number of new cars sold in a year (2014). 2.63m new cars sold, hardly seems a symptom of austerity, or lack of confidence. careful now, you're channelling some pure tory thought there 'I'm ok, my mates appear to be ok, lots of people have money, no problem' If 2.63 million new cars represented a new car for everyone it would be a clear indicator that all is fine. Just as no need for free school meals and no bad landlords would be a sign we are fine. There are people using free food in church halls to get by. This does not mean we are all dirt poor. It does mean there is still a problem for a significant number of people - and not just the dirty lazy genetically pre disposed feckless criminal poor either. New car sales are not an indicator we can help out the property millionaires by charging the poor an extra £14 for that spare room. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 2 hours ago, blandy said: Hardly, as it was labour that also did the banks, T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 8, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2016 2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: I find it difficult to grasp the trope that Britain is going through a period of devastating austerity when it is announced that the UK broke the record for the number of new cars sold in a year (2014). 2.63m new cars sold, hardly seems a symptom of austerity, or lack of confidence. It's mad, innit?. In one sense, with interest rates so low, it's almost daft not to buy stuff now. It's a good time to borrow - free credit, almost. But the other side is that the "national debt" is being reduced by citizens borrowing money to spend on (mostly) imported goods. It's just a situation repeating the thing that caused the problem to start with. Too much borrowing, such that if interest rates go up people will be stuffed. What should have been happening is that the Government should have been investing in manufacturing and infrastructure and green energy and such like, while money is cheap, thus creating skilled UK jobs and long term infrastructure and energy improvements that will "pay back" over the next 100 years. National renewal, with the money spent in the UK, employment of engineers, manufacturers, designers and scientists etc. Instead of which we've got jobs created by East Europeans and others coming over here and doing menial work for the minimum wage in JD sports and Amazon and Spacebucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: 2.63m new cars sold, hardly seems a symptom of austerity, or lack of confidence. What were new car 'sales' like in 2007? That's a rhetorical question - I don't need to now that they were about 2.4m. Edited January 8, 2016 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, blandy said: It's mad, innit?. In one sense, with interest rates so low, it's almost daft not to buy stuff now. It's a good time to borrow - free credit, almost. But the other side is that the "national debt" is being reduced by citizens borrowing money to spend on (mostly) imported goods. It's just a situation repeating the thing that caused the problem to start with. Too much borrowing, such that if interest rates go up people will be stuffed. What should have been happening is that the Government should have been investing in manufacturing and infrastructure and green energy and such like, while money is cheap, thus creating skilled UK jobs and long term infrastructure and energy improvements that will "pay back" over the next 100 years. National renewal, with the money spent in the UK, employment of engineers, manufacturers, designers and scientists etc. Instead of which we've got jobs created by East Europeans and others coming over here and doing menial work for the minimum wage in JD sports and Amazon and Spacebucks. I'm not really sure how you are going to stop that happening tbf ..until we do the right thing next year in the referendum and we tell Brussels to do one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 8, 2016 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2016 3 hours ago, tonyh29 said: I'm not really sure how you are going to stop that happening tbf ..until we do the right thing next year in the referendum and we tell Brussels to do one Why do we want to "stop that happening". My problem isn't with the people coming to do work, of whatever type - it's that the "recovery" is built on low wage unskilled jobs, consumer borrowing, house price inflation and asset bubbles instead of on manufacturing, infrastructure improvement, self sufficiency in energy provision, clean energy and "the march of the makers" (whatever happened to that?). It's not really a sustainable recovery, it's just pumping up a leaking tyre without fixing the hole. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 34 minutes ago, blandy said: Why do we want to "stop that happening". My problem isn't with the people coming to do work, of whatever type - it's that the "recovery" is built on low wage unskilled jobs, consumer borrowing, house price inflation and asset bubbles instead of on manufacturing, infrastructure improvement, self sufficiency in energy provision, clean energy and "the march of the makers" (whatever happened to that?). It's not really a sustainable recovery, it's just pumping up a leaking tyre without fixing the hole. ah my bad ..your use of the phrase Eastern Europeans and others seems to have clouded the message you were putting across as a I saw it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Disability benefit tests have doubled in cost, says NAO Quote Disability benefit assessments have doubled in cost to £579m a year but targets are still being missed, the National Audit Office has said. The spending watchdog found the quality of the tests was also not improving despite more being done face-to-face. Labour MP Meg Hillier, who chairs the public accounts committee, said the cost was "staggering" and sick and disabled people needed "a better deal". The Department for Work and Pensions said the quality of tests had improved. Health assessments for Employment and Support Allowance are carried out to assess people's capability for work. They were brought in to reduce the number of claimants but the department has constantly struggled with delays and controversy with disability campaigners claiming they have led to rising suicide and depression rates. Problems 'exacerbated' Private provider Atos quit its contract in 2014 and was replaced last year by US firm Maximus. The new contract requires an increased number of face-to-face assessments - with more staff needed to carry them out. But the NAO said "recent performance shows the department [DWP] has not tackled - and may even have exacerbated" problems over waiting times and targets, and expected savings to the welfare budget had been reduced from £1.1bn over the next three years to £400m. Key findings in the report said: There was still an estimated backlog of 280,000 ESA assessments in August 2015 with an estimated 23-week wait for claimants - down from 29 weeks There had been a struggle to recruit enough specialist medical staff to meet demand, while rising salaries had contributed to a 65% rise in the average cost of each assessment - from £115 to £190 At least £76m of taxpayers' money had also been wasted by the failure to get a new IT system up and running - more than two years after it was supposed to be in place Despite increasing the size of its performance management team, the DWP "has not yet achieved value for money", the report said, "Overall it now expects to pay more for assessments, and is still not achieving volume and assessment report quality targets." ...more on link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Privatisation fails again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krisagg75 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 i know a guy who has lost both legs through diabetes and looks after his wife.under the tory scumbag rules he doesn't get disability as he cares for his wife,so he does not get a motability car.he also(incredibly) does not get carers allowance as he has no legs and diabetes etc.the system is screwed, and the tory scum have shafted him.this is a bloke who worked until his disability prevented him from doing so.he has 2 docs who say he should get disability but under the rules they can still refuse it.the tory support will say that this is an isolated case but from what the bloke has told me it is not,and before the toryites find reasons to disagree/have a go. i earn over £100,000.00+ per annum.this government is screwing this country and in my 50 years on this earth this current lot are undoubtedly the worst. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockingbird_franklin Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) 17 hours ago, snowychap said: Disability benefit tests have doubled in cost, says NAO On the same subject http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dwp-fit-to-work-assessments-cost-more-than-they-save-report-reveals-a6801636.html Quote The Government is spending more money assessing whether people are fit to work than it is saving in reductions to the benefits bill, a damning official report has revealed The study by the National Audit Office (NAO) found that the Department for Work and Pensions is handing over £1.6bn over the next three years to private contractors who carry out the controversial health and disability assessments. But at the same time, the Government’s own financial watchdog has warned that savings in benefits payments are likely to be less than a billion pounds by 2020 as a result of the new tests. The cost of carrying out each employment and support allowance (ESA) test had risen from £115 to £190 after the controversial outsourcing firm Atos pulled out of its contract to run the tests last year. Benefit claimants are still waiting for more than six months before they are assessed during which time they are not entitled to full payments. None of the companies carrying out the tests met the Government’s own quality assessment threshold – with reports including spelling mistakes and unintelligible acronyms. The report found evidence that ministers set completely unrealistic targets for the number of ESA assessments that could be carried out each year. As a result, there is a backlog of at least 280,000 new claims while ministers have been forced to suspend plans to carry out periodic reassessments of those already claiming the benefit..... Edited January 9, 2016 by blandy quote inserted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 9, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted January 9, 2016 16 hours ago, tonyh29 said: ah my bad ..your use of the phrase Eastern Europeans and others seems to have clouded the message you were putting across as a I saw it I mentioned the incomers doing mostly low wage jobs because of all the claims about improvements to employment etc. A fair chunk of the increase in the number of people in work are these people from the continent. Good for them, good for us, but then you get the hypocrisy of the govt raging on about immigration. As with almost everything the govt does, it's not joined up, it's just a sequence of actions based around petty prejudices. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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