Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted August 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2017 The threads would be pretty tedious if we had to wait in a queue to maintain a 1 left to 1 right post balance. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It's been 8 years since labour were in power. Before those 8 years they brought our country into just as much mess as we are currently in. I'm not a fan of either party to be honest as I think in general it's turned into a shit-slinging contest rather than a discussion on policy. I haven't seen a single debate since Cameron vs Brown in 2010, all I've seen is quibbles over ties, shots below the belt and scare tactics. Labour are just as much as fault for that as the tories are as they constitute the majority of the opposition. If you think they are at equally at fault for the pantomime politics then fine that is not a life changing issue for anyone so I doubt that is going to bring about mass debate as in the grand scheme of things the shit slinging doesn't matter. What does matter and where one party is at fault and the other isn't is that due to ideological policies over the last 7 years we have seen a huge increase in children living in poverty, huge increase in working poor, huge increase in those reliant on food banks, huge increase in homeless people, huge increases in A and E, out patient and GP waiting times, the wilful destruction of adult social care, decrease in police numbers leading to major issues with community policing, rising class numbers, students leaving university with huge debt, the stagnation of wages, the lack of affordable housing etc, etc, etc. The party responsible for policies resulting in all of the above is of course going to get the blame and not the opposition. You can say they haven't been a strong enough opposition but that doesn't excuse what the Tories have done or somehow proportion the blame elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post a m ole Posted August 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Oh look, here we are again discussing whether the "left" can debate properly. If you think there's no basis behind a 'sly' remark then challenge it, but I think the notion that someone with a vested interest in something is not as balanced and impartial as they might believe is pretty valid. Edited August 9, 2017 by a m ole 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: If you think they are at equally at fault for the pantomime politics then fine that is not a life changing issue for anyone so I doubt that is going to bring about mass debate as in the grand scheme of things the shit slinging doesn't matter. What does matter and where one party is at fault and the other isn't is that due to ideological policies over the last 7 years we have seen a huge increase in children living in poverty, huge increase in working poor, huge increase in those reliant on food banks, huge increase in homeless people, huge increases in A and E, out patient and GP waiting times, the wilful destruction of adult social care, decrease in police numbers leading to major issues with community policing, rising class numbers, students leaving university with huge debt, the stagnation of wages, the lack of affordable housing etc, etc, etc. The party responsible for policies resulting in all of the above is of course going to get the blame and not the opposition. You can say they haven't been a strong enough opposition but that doesn't excuse what the Tories have done or somehow proportion the blame elsewhere. That is true, however it is pretty naive to think that politics is the only thing that has changed the above things. Economics, oil prices, the EU stabilising and taking on new countries and a whole raft of other issues have contributed to that. The fact that labour opposition in the last 7-8 years have been miniscule is also a huge factor to all of the above problems. I've said it before and I'll say it again, parity, or close parity, is what is the best for our type of political system. The way that both labour and the conservatives have moved further left and right than in a long time is one of the reasons why you are seeing the above problems. Under labour of 2010 it was the following: boom and bust fiscal policy, lend lend lend, "we'll send all your kids to a two week residential programme!" and so forth. Frankly both parties have landed us in this mess, it's naive to think that this is all the conservatives fault. Brown and his boys put us in our worst economical situation since the 70's. Osbourne is a pussycat compared to that s"%t-show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted August 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Brown and his boys put us in our worst economical situation since the 70's No, they didn't. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, snowychap said: No, they didn't. If you repeat something over and over again, it becomes fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: If you repeat something over and over again, it becomes fact. BEHIND YOU! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 hour ago, markavfc40 said: Tony assuming you are on about Dicky then I have never once gotten the impression he was being bullied and could more than hold his own in any disagreement. As for the way this thread has gone over the last few days then again I don't see that a certain poster is being picked on. He is putting up opinions that many don't agree with and is therefore being called out on them. No different to any other thread on VT. If I was to go into the Kodjia thread now and say I think we should sell him I would be jumped on by most posters but I wouldn't see that as me being bullied. it was just my view , and I did qualify it by saying Bullying was probably the wrong word .... same way I guess that I found Dunkirk boring yesterday and others have found it non stop action entertainment , it's just a view it's not the calling out really that's the issue , more the derision and the nature of the comments , it's not really going to encourage a poster to engage and like I've said before these thread need the ying to go with the yang otherwise this thread would be poster A saying "those tories are shit aren't they" , getting xx likes and xx posts of yeah I agree and then the thread would be dormant for countless weeks ..... I've seen the labour thread hit page 3 before on the topic list before , but go in there and post something debatable and the next thing the thread has moved on 6 pages , bit like today in this thread to a lesser extent tbh I expected a harder time over my post , instead people have engaged , guess it turned out better than I expected 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 53 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Where did I mass generalise? I simply quoted something one of the left's favorite satirists have said multiple times. 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: I do think Tony has a fair point in what he's trying to say. If someone keeps getting shut down by a love pile of lefties every time they make an argument edging on something that isn't Corbyn-esque they are bound to stop at some point. Regardless of who said what, to complain that productive debate is dying and then state the above is pretty confusing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Regardless of who said what, to complain that productive debate is dying and then state the above is pretty confusing. What is confusing? Jonathan Pie saying that the left needs to engage more and talk about policy rather than insulting people ("¤#¤ the tories, oink oink david cameron) or the fact that I quoted him? I don't understand how you can be confused about that. I don't understand how asking people to be civil in debate is not conducive to proper debate either. I must have something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: What is confusing? Jonathan Pie saying that the left needs to engage more and talk about policy rather than insulting people ("¤#¤ the tories, oink oink david cameron) 1) I didn't even quote Pie in my post above. 2) You complain about debate dying yet accuse 'the left' (as if that's an entire entity) of just insulting people. It's a load of bollocks for one, and secondly you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing without a hint of self-awareness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: 1) I didn't even quote Pie in my post above. 2) You complain about debate dying yet accuse 'the left' (as if that's an entire entity) of just insulting people. It's a load of bollocks for one, and secondly you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing without a hint of self-awareness. Did I accuse 'the left' of that? Really? I simply quoted something Jonathan Pie has said. Do you feel offended by that? Let's move on, people don't want to see projection from either of us. Where I said the left are "just insulting people" I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Sigh. I don't know why I bother. You waded in complaining how productive debate is dying because of the left. Then proceeded to generalise and insult. Quote I do think Tony has a fair point in what he's trying to say. If someone keeps getting shut down by a love pile of lefties every time they make an argument edging on something that isn't Corbyn-esque they are bound to stop at some point. Generalisation and flat out wrong. Quote Jonathan Pie said it well really - big portions of the left have disconnected and gone to really low ways of debating rather than engaging in policy discussion. So you didn't just quote somebody did you? You agree with them - this is a huge generalisation and again, wrong. Quote The end result of a debate with many lefties is generally "well Labour isn't in power so it doesn't really matter anyway" or "I would be hyper critical of Labour were they in power". So in the end you are arguing against someone who at the end of the day argues just for the sake of arguing. Again, huge generalisations. How many people lean left in the UK. "Many" is what %? 6 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Did I accuse 'the left' of that? Really? I simply quoted something Jonathan Pie has said. Do you feel offended by that? Please. I'm amused at your blatant hypocrisy and continued pleas of innocence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Sigh. I don't know why I bother. You waded in complaining how productive debate is dying because of the left. Then proceeded to generalise and insult. Generalisation and flat out wrong. So you didn't just quote somebody did you? You agree with them - this is a huge generalisation and again, wrong. Again, huge generalisations. How many people lean left in the UK. "Many" is what %? Please. I'm amused at your blatant hypocrisy and continued pleas of innocence. Cool. Let's agree to disagree. I'll agree with Jonathan Pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 9, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2017 Ahem - Moderator request. Please could posters return to the topic at hand - the tories, rather than other posters, the alleged love pile of lefties, Jonathan Pie and such like. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Amber Rudd latest to fall victim to email hoaxer using fake account Quote The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has apparently fallen victim to an email hoaxer who has previously tricked members of Donald Trump’s inner circle and the governor of the Bank of England. The hoaxer posed as a senior Downing Street aide and managed to hold an email conversation with the home secretary on her personal email account. Rudd revealed she was working with her special adviser Mohammed Hussein on a series of announcements to be made in August before realising she was corresponding with a hoaxer. The self-styled “email prankster”, who uses the moniker Sinon Reborn, set up an email address in the name of Robbie Gibb, Theresa May’s recently appointed communications chief, using the free email service GMX. He emailed Rudd’s publicly available parliamentary email address and she replied using a separate personal email account. The “relative ease” with which the 39-year old website designer from south Manchester claims to have tricked Rudd is likely to be embarrassing for the home secretary, who has overall responsibility for cyber security. One computer security expert warned that external email systems, such as Microsoft Outlook, which Rudd used with the hoaxer, are more vulnerable to intrusion than government email accounts. When Rudd realised she was not talking to Gibb, she ended the correspondence, but not before she had talked about plans for “positive announcements” and a forthcoming holiday. “I managed to speak to a home secretary with relative ease on her personal email address,” Reborn told the Guardian. “I replied again saying: ‘Don’t you think you should be more aware of cyber security if you are home secretary?’ and I never got a reply from that.” ...more on link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post darrenm Posted August 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2017 He must have known the necessary hashtags 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) R4 Today programme suggesting Jacob Rees Mogg using the parliamentary recess to consult chums on a leadership challenge. Edited August 13, 2017 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 13, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: R4 Today programme suggesting Jacob Rees Mogg using the parliamentary recess to consult chums on a leadership challenge. ...Sales of furniture leg coverings jump in anticipation, young children nationwide feel an unusual slight chill and the taste of soot and shoe polish mysteriously in their mouths, and job centres suddenly feel compelled to investigate nearby property suitable as work houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, chrisp65 said: R4 Today programme suggesting Jacob Rees Mogg using the parliamentary recess to consult chums on a leadership challenge. Nanny said definitely not but teddy's all for it! Edited August 13, 2017 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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