blandy Posted July 11, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2017 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: as someone who has been a target of antisemitism constantly hearing educated people saying "Jews aren't a race - so people being idiotic against Jews aren't really racist" I find that I lose my patience. Understandable. Jews aren't a race, but that's kind of irrelevant, or completely irrelevant. If someone is being treated badly, abused, discriminated against or worse, then whether it's technically racism, or whether it's technically religious discrimination/hatred is not the issue. It's the hatred/abuse/whatever that's the issue, not the definition of the numbskulled reason behind it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 The technicality of 'race' is easily overcome. The MoJ would define racism as abuse suffered by an individual which can be perceived by that individual as racist. That works far better than any DNA based definition. Clearly there is no DNA based 'english' race. But if you were in other company and victimised for being english, then you have suffered racism. Whether we choose to believe and validate all claims, accusations and third party anecdotes is a totally separate matter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: The technicality of 'race' is easily overcome. The MoJ would define racism as abuse suffered by an individual which can be perceived by that individual as racist. That works far better than any DNA based definition. Clearly there is no DNA based 'english' race. But if you were in other company and victimised for being english, then you have suffered racism. Whether we choose to believe and validate all claims, accusations and third party anecdotes is a totally separate matter. Good points, with our world the way it is there is very few peoples that are genetically pure left. Last time I read extensively on the subject I think Iceland was the last European country that has something like a 90% purity rate like that of the Vikings that colonised the place. For the Jews though it is important to recognise that if you are to give Travelers, Sami, Jezidi, Turkmen and so on ethnic status you also need to give at least the Jews that stem from Jiddish families ethnic status. Somewhere back in time the Jewish community was a race as well as a religion, which is why a lot of current scholars calls it an ethnoreligion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: with our world the way it is there is very few peoples that are genetically pure left. I am genetically pure left. 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: For the Jews though it is important to recognise that .... It is no more or less important for anyone to recognise anything about anybody. No exceptionalism, with no exceptions. I am beyond disinterested in any claims of special history as it absolutely cannot justify anything currently happening. Grievance Top Trumps is not the way ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: There is this huge misconception that it's okay to be antisemitic these days from a lot of walks of life I'm sorry I thoroughly disagree with this 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I am genetically pure left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Teachers basic salaries (outside London). Not bad? Headteachers: Max £108,283 Min £44,102 Leading practitioners: Max £59,264 Min £38,984 Upper pay ranges: Max £38,250 Min £35,571 Main pay ranges: Max £33,160 Min£22,467 In addition to the basic salary you’ll earn, there are other great benefits available including: holidays – you’ll get more days than many people in other professions, though teachers work for 195 days per year in school, and tend to do some work during their holidays a generous pension – when you’re employed as a teacher you’ll automatically be a member of the Teachers’ Pension Scheme special educational needs (SEN) allowance – if you work as a qualified teacher with pupils with SEN, you could be eligible for an SEN allowance of no less than £2,085 and no more than £4,116 per annum teaching and learning responsibility (TLR) payments – additional money if you take on more responsibilities - £2640 to £12,898. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) You start on 22,000; far less than most professions you go to uni for (nevermind for 4 years) Your workload and expectation levels from day one simply aren't worth it. Quote tend to do some work during their holidays Ha. Taking on more responsibilities when you're already working, often, a 60/70 hour week simply isn't worth the few hundred quid a month. The issue is two-fold but the big issue is getting people into the profession and keeping them there. Experienced teachers are just people who got better at giving up their lives. Edited July 11, 2017 by StefanAVFC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted July 11, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2017 You'd have to be a sadist to want to be a teacher in this country. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Chindie said: You'd have to be a sadist to want to be a teacher in this country. Yep. Shite working conditions and abuse from the majority of the population. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, Chindie said: You'd have to be a sadist to want to be a teacher in this country. I'm guessing you mean a masochist. Unless you're suggesting that teachers enjoy inflicting pain on their pupils... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 11, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2017 30 minutes ago, Chindie said: You'd have to be a sadist to want to be a teacher in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 25 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Yep. Shite working conditions and abuse from the majority of the population. Don't forget very good pay too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 I'd say that firefighters and police officers are probably even further down the ladder than teachers. Sad state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post choffer Posted July 11, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I'd say that firefighters and police officers are probably even further down the ladder than teachers. Sad state of affairs. Aren't fire fighters normally higher up the ladder? Edited July 11, 2017 by choffer 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 11, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 11, 2017 39 minutes ago, ml1dch said: I'm guessing you mean a masochist. Unless you're suggesting that teachers enjoy inflicting pain on their pupils... A little from column A, a little from column B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: abuse from the majority of the population. I'm not sure that's because you were a teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Yep. Shite working conditions and abuse from the majority of the population. do they really get abuse ? I mean I know they used to be a figure of fun on VT ( until it was verboten) for their ability to watch TV , drink a glass of wine with dinner ,complete with photos on Facebook and then claim a 20 hour working day but abuse , seems a strong word .. I'd have said generally they are held in the same regard by the public as nurses etc Edited July 11, 2017 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 hours ago, ender4 said: Teachers basic salaries (outside London). Not bad? A 1% pay rise would amount to a real terms pay cut whatever the salary. That it was teachers in the announcement was of less relevance than that an announcement suggested that the pay cap was going to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: You start on 22,000; far less than most professions you go to uni for (nevermind for 4 years) Your workload and expectation levels from day one simply aren't worth it. Ha. Taking on more responsibilities when you're already working, often, a 60/70 hour week simply isn't worth the few hundred quid a month. The issue is two-fold but the big issue is getting people into the profession and keeping them there. Experienced teachers are just people who got better at giving up their lives. A starting salary of £22k isn't bad to be fair. I agree with you there's a lot that makes teaching a bad career but £22k as a starting point isn't far behind jobs such as accounting (£25k from a quick google) and doctors (£22.5k again from a quick google). You also don't need to do a four year degree - there are plenty of universities which offer 3 year degrees in teacher training. Minor points but yeah, I wouldn't want to do it so I agree with your general point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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