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The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)


blandy

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8 minutes ago, darrenm said:

For the Tories and the deficit it's a case of good news and bad news.

The good news is they've reduced the deficit from £103bn to £20bn

The bad news is they've increased the national debt from £800bn to £1.8tn

Fiscally responsible my arse

The deficit as of March 2017 was 52 billion. They said in 2010 they would wipe it out by 2015. 

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37 minutes ago, darrenm said:

For the Tories and the deficit it's a case of good news and bad news.

The good news is they've reduced the deficit from £103bn to £20bn

The bad news is they've increased the national debt from £800bn to £1.8tn

Fiscally responsible my arse

I'm sure whoever you got  the information from meant well but they are kinda being selective in their data they've given you 

 fact check for example appear to present  it slightly differently

 

Public sector net debt was £347 billion in 1996/97, the year before Labour came into office, and £1,011 billion in 2009/10, their last financial year in power

That’s a cash terms rise of 191% over 13 years, which compares to a 71% rise over seven years with Conservative Chancellors between 2009/10 and 2016/17. 

But the rise in public sector net debt under Labour once inflation is accounted for is a considerably lower 125%....The equivalent figure for the Conservatives up to 2016/17 is 53%

of course one can say the global recession of 2008 played a huge part in labours debt , but then surely we also have to factor the repercussions into subsequent years ?

But in terms of fiscal responsibility 53% would suggest the rise in debt has slowed down ( though in fairness it's had a shorter time than the figure being compared to )

there are lots of other sites out there showing similar types of data , that are worth scrutinising to give a fairer picture either way ...I don't think other than for twitter users to copy and paste  that you can really just simplify it as look how much x has borrowed / raised the debt 

 

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Have we already talked about this call centre in Neath, run by a man called Sascha Lopez that spent the election campaign calling people on behalf of specific candidates, in what appears to be a breach of electoral law? There's a short but fairly troubling Channel 4 News investigation of it here:

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-inside-the-secretive-tory-election-call-centre

Sorry if this has already been discussed, I may have missed it first time around. 

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On a completely different note, I also came across this tweet, with an extract from a book which I believe is 'Austerity Britain' by David Kynaston, describing the reactions of some to the Labour election win in 1945:

 

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Cant believe they cheered at winning at keeping the 1% cap

People risk their lives and you cheer for that. Absolute rocket polishers.  I think it should be made public who voted in favour of keeping it so we can demand why they voted to keep this with our local mps.

Considering all the chaos recently, i think its spitting in all their faces

Edited by Demitri_C
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24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Cant believe they cheered at winning at keeping the 1% cap

People risk their lives and you cheer for that. Absolute rocket polishers.  I think it should be made public who voted in favour of keeping it

Right-hand column:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2017-06-28/division/14922156-6516-4650-B89D-D7001746A00F/HealthSocialCareAndSecurity?outputType=Names

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14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Thanks mate. My MP and all the surrounding areas voted in favour of this being scrapped, I suggest you all look up to see if your local MP voted against it and send them letters how disgusted you are at them and you wont consider voting for them again. Cowards 

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5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

It's almost as if when Labour came to power back then with public services were on their knees, cronically under funded and in crumbling buildings. Low Police numbers, declining numbers of teachers an NHS at breaking point...

Rather like now as it happens.

It seems to me that we are in a cycle, Tories under fund and devalue the public services and shout about their financial control. The few do very nicely but after a while people realise what they are really about and the number doing well aren't enough to ou vote those who object to what they are doing.

Then in come Labour who over spend on public services in part because of the underfunding that went before them then they get attacked for a lack of financial control.

Rinse and repeat.

Oh for a sensible middle ground. A Government that provides sensible and consistent public sector funding with a central political outlook.

No screwing the poor and disabled but no excessive benefit culture, no pandering to the rich while not taxing them into exile or avoidance.

An approach where corporations, businesses and individuals are all expected to pay their fair share.

But instead we have this ideological left and right bs on a cycle.

I agree with much of what you say mate but in terms of an ideological left party we haven’t had one of those in power for a very long term.

I wouldn’t even consider the current Labour party as being extreme left it just looks that way to some in comparison to the Tories, who have increasingly pushed further to the right, and the centre right New Labour/Blair years.

Edited by markavfc40
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1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

I agree with much of what you say mate but in terms of an ideological left party we haven’t had one of those in power for a very long term.

I wouldn’t even consider the current Labour party as being extreme left it just looks that way in comparison to the Tories and the centre right New Labour/Blair years.

The longer Labour were in the more they moved towards the left, sure they were still New Labour but they were more left than when elected in 97.

I'm very much New Labour (or whoever wishes to hold that middle ground or slightly left of centre ground).

That puts me at odds with more traditional Labour voters but there we go, can't be helped.

I don't want a Socialist government any more than I want a right Tory one. 

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2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

The longer Labour were in the more they moved towards the left, sure they were still New Labour but they were more left than when elected in 97.

I'm very much New Labour (or whoever wishes to hold that middle ground or slightly left of centre ground).

That puts me at odds with more traditional Labour voters but there we go, can't be helped.

I don't want a Socialist government any more than I want a right Tory one. 

What would you consider the current Labour party to be? Centre, left of centre, left, extreme left….

Edited by markavfc40
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15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

What would you consider the current Labour party to be? Centre, left of centre, left, extreme left….

Well in my view they certainly aren't centre or even left of centre.

I felt that the manifesto was left but I also felt that it had been tempered somewhat by a realisation that they needed mass appeal.

My fear would be that if elected Corbyn and McDonnell would move more and more towards the extreme left.

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11 hours ago, bickster said:

I think it's quite a clever tactic tbh, Tories were never going to vote for it and they are so stupid they even cheered.

Exactly what we mean when we say they are stupid and they don't learn. Prime example of it

 Now if they do lift the cap later (as is rumoured), Labour still get the creidit and everyone remembers the Tories cheered 

Behaviour like this will not reverse and trends in the polls

Spot on. And when Tories do vote for it, they will be seen as doing another U-turn.

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8 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

 

My fear would be that if elected Corbyn and McDonnell would move more and more towards the extreme left.

I don’t think that would happen and there is enough moderates with in the Labour party, or those more New Labour if you like, that would be able to ensure that it didn’t happen. Given if/when he does become PM it would almost certainly be with a small majority that I doubt they would even try to force through any far left policies.

Based on their manifesto and the overall makeup of the PLP I think I’d consider the current Labour party left of centre.

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3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don’t think that would happen and there is enough moderates with in the Labour party, or those more New Labour if you like, that would be able to ensure that it didn’t happen. Given if/when he does become PM it would almost certainly be with a small majority that I doubt they would even try to force through any far left policies.

Based on their manifesto and the overall makeup of the PLP I think I’d consider the current Labour party left of centre.

Yeah this won't happen. I am sure of it. The manifesto was put together and voted on as a party and that will always be the way. 

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4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don’t think that would happen and there is enough moderates with in the Labour party, or those more New Labour if you like, that would be able to ensure that it didn’t happen. Given if/when he does become PM it would almost certainly be with a small majority that I doubt they would even try to force through any far left policies.

Based on their manifesto and the overall makeup of the PLP I think I’d consider the current Labour party left of centre.

Well, I don't often say this but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one mate.

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1 minute ago, DK82 said:

Yeah this won't happen. I am sure of it. The manifesto was put together and voted on as a party and that will always be the way. 

But they are tools to get elected, they do not govern decisions of Governments and PM's once elected.

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3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are tools to get elected, they do not govern decisions of Governments and PM's once elected.

Any new legislation/policy changes needs to be voted on in the HOC. The current makeup of the Labour party is such that any far left policies would be defeated. Now if the Labour party was full of left/far left MP’s I’d agree with you but it isn’t. Not even close.

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12 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

But they are tools to get elected, they do not govern decisions of Governments and PM's once elected.

You might be right, but I just disagree on it. I can't prove it because it hasn't happen, I am just going by discussions within my own local party and info given from high ranking people. All I want is a party in power who will take the restraints off the poorest, which I know is all you want too (or I see that with your posts anyway!).

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2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Cant believe they cheered at winning at keeping the 1% cap

To be fair, that's not what really happened even though it may appear to be so or may be presented as such.

They cheered because their party, one of minority government, had voted down, albeit with the help of the DUP, the official opposition's amendment to the Queen's Speech.

It may not technically be viewed as a vote of confidence any more due to the FTPA but it's still significant.

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