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The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

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written commitment in tory manifesto at last general election 'no increase in National Insurance during the course of the next parliament'

March 2017 budget 'National insurance to rise twice in next two years for self employed'

same old same old

 

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51 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

written commitment in tory manifesto at last general election 'no increase in National Insurance during the course of the next parliament'

March 2017 budget 'National insurance to rise twice in next two years for self employed'

same old same old

 

Wouldn't that be like me comparing Ed's 2015 election manifesto  to promises now made by Corbyn ? I don't know what the "rules" for manifesto promises are  if you politically knife a leader and steal their job , are you obliged to commit to their promises ?

I guess it would all come down to how you interpret  it though   ? .. NI per se hasn't technically increased it's still the same rate it's always been  , its just been adjusted for those who were paying a lower rate  :)

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Wouldn't that be like me comparing Ed's 2015 election manifesto  to promises now made by Corbyn ? I don't know what the "rules" for manifesto promises are  if you politically knife a leader and steal their job , are you obliged to commit to their promises ?

 

Or comparing say, a previous manifesto commitment to honour the result of an advisory referendum...

;)

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1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

written commitment in tory manifesto at last general election 'no increase in National Insurance during the course of the next parliament'

March 2017 budget 'National insurance to rise twice in next two years for self employed'

same old same old

 

Manifesto says they won't increase it but NIC legislation doesn't say they can't.

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1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

It was the will of the hard working great british public to vote for a party that simply and clearly stated in writing that they wouldn’t raise national insurance.
It was there in writing in the pledges and commitments, should we vote them in.

Only one constituency got to vote on who they wanted to be PM (inner mediashire). The PM is simply there to honour the will of the people, not undermine the fabric of society.

To go against the will of the people that clearly voted for the party that pledged to this commitment would be an undemocratic act of deception by the enemies of the people.

You cannot bend what was voted for. There should be no further debate. It's closed, join us or shut up. Even where what was actually being voted for may have been based on lies or half truths or a lack of decent honest information.

Or have I got the last 8 or 9 months completely wrong?
 

looks pretty spot on to me

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1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

Wouldn't that be like me comparing Ed's 2015 election manifesto  to promises now made by Corbyn ? I don't know what the "rules" for manifesto promises are  if you politically knife a leader and steal their job , are you obliged to commit to their promises ?

The manifesto is the property of the party, not the leader.  Changing the leader does not absolve a party of its manifesto promises.  If a government feels that circumstances have changed so much that significant manifesto promises can't be delivered, it would be reasonable to expect them to explain why, and if the departure from the manifesto was especially big, many people would argue they should hold another election.

Since a manifesto is supposed to be a programme for government, it's not expected that an opposition will stick to their losing manifesto for the next five years, not least because they are not in control of government and cannot implement it.  In fact the expectation of opposition parties is that they provide criticism of and alternatives for what the government is doing now, not continually repeat statements from their last manifesto.

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It's a nice idea, but I think it's now simply accepted that a manifesto is nothing more than a glossy pamphlet of sugar-coated lies designed to trick people in to voting for parties that'll do whatever they please.

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42 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

It was the will of the hard working great british public to vote for a party that simply and clearly stated in writing that they wouldn’t raise national insurance.
It was there in writing in the pledges and commitments, should we vote them in.

Only one constituency got to vote on who they wanted to be PM (inner mediashire). The PM is simply there to honour the will of the people, not undermine the fabric of society.

To go against the will of the people that clearly voted for the party that pledged to this commitment would be an undemocratic act of deception by the enemies of the people.

You cannot bend what was voted for. There should be no further debate. It's closed, join us or shut up. Even where what was actually being voted for may have been based on lies or half truths or a lack of decent honest information.

Or have I got the last 8 or 9 months completely wrong?
 

keep up , the phrase is now "Ordinary working people "  , "hard working"  is so 2016

 

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34 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It's a nice idea, but I think it's now simply accepted that a manifesto is nothing more than a glossy pamphlet of sugar-coated lies designed to trick people in to voting for parties that'll do whatever they please.

Parties take manifestos more seriously than you suppose. 

I don't think anyone imagines people vote on the basis of reading the manifestos and considering the policies outlined - not anyone active in politics, anyway.  Hardly anyone not active in politics reads them, for a start.

The manifesto is more a way of expressing core beliefs and what a party sees as the central issues for the coming election.  It's a platform on which to unite candidates (and people who don't support key elements of the manifesto would be considered unsuitable on that basis).  In the event of discussions about political co-operation, which will take place in many local government settings, it's a core document outlining the demands each party would try to get agreement for.  It's also useful as a checklist against which progress can be shown - some parties have manifesto pledges translated into a strategic planning document for a local authority, to give an overarching policy context.  For opposition parties that can't implement the manifesto, it still gives a framework of things to press for, perhaps by moving motions or amendments to secure specific measures or at least move in that direction.

Where parties deceive people, it's more in the realm of framing ideas ("there's no money left") than in a reasonably specific list of measures to be pursued.

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As a self employed person this is a joke, no holiday pay, no sick pay and now more deductions from my pay. 

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1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

keep up , the phrase is now "Ordinary working people "  , "hard working"  is so 2016

'tax and spend tory liars', that's another one I forgot to use

 

I've also neglected to mention the rise in rates my local comprehensive school will incur if it gets solar panels fitted to the roof.

If it was a private school, no charge.

Ordinary tories just helping their ordinary chums.

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4 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

I don't know what the "rules" for manifesto promises are  if you politically knife a leader and steal their job , are you obliged to commit to their promises ?

Gordo told us nearly a decade ago that 'pledges' in a manifesto were, in fact, merely aspirations.

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3 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

keep up , the phrase is now "Ordinary working people "  , "hard working"  is so 2016

 

I thought it was 'just about managing'?

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1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

much trouble regurgitating her prey

may-lol.gif

I think Trump may be grabbing her.

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7 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

I think Trump may be grabbing her.

Fist pump.

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17 minutes ago, Xann said:

Fist pump.

Maybe she's doing her party trick, gargling the Benny Hill theme.

Edited by PompeyVillan

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12 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

I think Trump may be grabbing her.

Very good sir.

 

 

I feel like not enough of a big deal is made of the tories clearly being fairly bad replicants.

Edited by Davkaus
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16 hours ago, Davkaus said:

It's a nice idea, but I think it's now simply accepted that a manifesto is nothing more than a glossy pamphlet of sugar-coated lies designed to trick people in to voting for parties that'll do whatever they please.

Yup. After decades of broken manifesto pledges it's not surprising that May has broken one already.

I wonder if in the future there's a way we could hold politicians to account or even vote digitally for changes.

Edited by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay
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