blandy Posted February 22, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Chindie said: the F35s we are due to receive will have their engines maintained by Turkey, because the Yanks have done a deal with the Turks and, as a tier one partner on the project, we don't have a say in the situation. So every time there's repairs or upgrades needed, we'll need to pack the engines off to Turkey. Which presumably gives Turkey quite a lot of leverage over what we can do militarily. Or has a hostage if we do anything Erdogan dislikes Not really accurate. Apart from there being a facility being built at Marham, both Norway and Holland are also having facilities being built there, so it's not the case that there will be a single point for engine overhaul. Also the Aussies and others will have faciities. What's been done is that instead of each nation having all the faciities to do all the repair and maintenance activities, various centres are being set up distributed about the world to do specialist tasks in that region, The UK for example will be one of the places for Avionics, so "we" could do the ame to the Turks as your post claims they could do to us - though again, there are other nations who will also have an Avionics facility, so all is not quite as your post claims, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chindie said: Which is lucky because the last news in the testing of the aircraft could probably leave it be described as dangerous the F-35 is a strange one , I don't think I've ever seen a plane with so many false rumours attached to it .. the best one being it couldn't fly in the rain !! a lot of the myths about it have been debunked but even so it seems they will always stick . Ultimately, the F-35 is experiencing the problems typical of many other planes and nothing more I saw one fly at Farnborough this year , got to say that it's hover capabilities appeared to be a huge step backwards from the Harrier , it's on paper easier for the pilot but it's functionality looked a bit flawed in a combat situation ( takes 15 seconds for everything to engage ... and presumably another 15 to disengage ) As for the engines this was knowledge as far back as 2014 /15 (unless this is a new story you've and those plans are being ripped up and new ones being put in place ?) ... ... Pratt and Witney own 49% of the company in Turkey ,(I'm not sure if that matters in the event of Turkey going rogue ) and probably is a reason why Turkey got the deal ....The good news is (or was ) that Norway and The Netherlands go online with the engine maintenance program 3 years after Turkey (2018) so by 2021 we can get them repaired by our new Trading partners in the EFTA Italy have the airframe contract if I recall ..but we are allowed to handle these out of an RAF base in Norfolk if Italy don't have capacity !! all sounds rather bizarre either way .... Edit - seems Pete beat me to a lot of it !! Edited February 22, 2017 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, blandy said: Not really accurate. Apart from there being a facility being built at Marham, both Norway and Holland are also having facilities being built there, so it's not the case that there will be a single point for engine overhaul. Also the Aussies and others will have faciities. What's been done is that instead of each nation having all the faciities to do all the repair and maintenance activities, various centres are being set up distributed about the world to do specialist tasks in that region, The UK for example will be one of the places for Avionics, so "we" could do the ame to the Turks as your post claims they could do to us - though again, there are other nations who will also have an Avionics facility, so all is not quite as your post claims, Direct your corrections to this weeks issue of Private Eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: the F-35 is a strange one , I don't think I've ever seen a plane with so many false rumours attached to it .. the best one being it couldn't fly in the rain !! a lot of the myths about it have been debunked but even so it seems they will always stick . Ultimately, the F-35 is experiencing the problems typical of many other planes and nothing more I saw one fly at Farnborough this year , got to say that it's hover capabilities appeared to be a huge step backwards from the Harrier , it's on paper easier for the pilot but it's functionality looked a bit flawed in a combat situation ( takes 15 seconds for everything to engage ... and presumably another 15 to disengage ) As for the engines this was knowledge as far back as 2014 /15 (unless this is a new story you've and those plans are being ripped up and new ones being put in place ?) ... ... Pratt and Witney own 49% of the company in Turkey ,(I'm not sure if that matters in the event of Turkey going rogue ) and probably is a reason why Turkey got the deal ....The good news is (or was ) that Norway and The Netherlands go online with the engine maintenance program 3 years after Turkey (2018) so by 2021 we can get them repaired by our new Trading partners in the EFTA Italy have the airframe contract if I recall ..but we are allowed to handle these out of an RAF base in Norfolk if Italy don't have capacity !! all sounds rather bizarre either way .... Edit - seems Pete beat me to a lot of it !! The last thing I remember reading on it was something to do with the cockpit and helmet clashing in actual real world use and causing injury or something (this is from a a hastily scanned article months so this is undoubtedly wrong. I'll see if I've still got the article around...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 22, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: Ultimately, the F-35 is experiencing the problems typical of many other planes and nothing more That seems like a bit of an understatement. There have been and are all sort of "challenges", many of which seem to be pretty unique - in part because of the nature of the thing. A 3 variant single platform (with carrier and VSTOL versions as well as the basic Conventional version) that's supposed to replace a range of current aircraft as varied as A10 tankbusters and F16 fighters, while also being stealthy and self diagnostic. But none of that is much to so with baby eating, so er, probably best leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) On 2/16/2017 at 21:11, peterms said: Austerity was self-defeating and disastrous. Who knew? Apart from, ooh, just about everyone. The only people who did not know this at the time were (1) economic illiterates, (2) anti-state ideologues or (3) people who would financially gain from the policy. Edited February 22, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, blandy said: That seems like a bit of an understatement. There have been and are all sort of "challenges", many of which seem to be pretty unique - in part because of the nature of the thing. A 3 variant single platform (with carrier and VSTOL versions as well as the basic Conventional version) that's supposed to replace a range of current aircraft a varied as A10 tankbusters and F16 fighters, while also being stealthy and self diagnostic. But none of that is much to so with baby eating, so er, probably best leave it there. Time to resurrect the TSR 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, blandy said: That seems like a bit of an understatement. There have been and are all sort of "challenges", many of which seem to be pretty unique - in part because of the nature of the thing. A 3 variant single platform (with carrier and VSTOL versions as well as the basic Conventional version) that's supposed to replace a range of current aircraft as varied as A10 tankbusters and F16 fighters, while also being stealthy and self diagnostic. But none of that is much to so with baby eating, so er, probably best leave it there. Do we have a thread that would be appropriate for this discussion? I would be interested to know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) The lib dems on the ground seem to think the conservatives have taken Copeland ? Edited February 24, 2017 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: The lib dems on the ground seem to think the conservatives have taken Copeland ? same old lib dems, lying for the tories 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 57 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: The lib dems on the ground seem to think the conservatives have taken Copeland ? I'd be surprised if their canvass returns are complete enough or accurate enough to say that. Probably they are extrapolating from turnout figures from the first count, and assuming local areas went the same way as in the last election. Relative turnout can be decisive. As a forecasting technique, it's above chicken entrails and below metereology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: The lib dems on the ground seem to think the conservatives have taken Copeland ? As Lib Dem activists, I guess they've beaten the confession out of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 4 hours ago, tonyh29 said: The lib dems on the ground seem to think the conservatives have taken Copeland ? They were right. Quite a remarkable result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 A genuinely terrible result for Labour, and helps show that no matter how much people in Britain love the NHS, they will not vote on that and only that at the exclusion of other issues. Labour needs to find an identity they can agree on, and they need to do it quickly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Labour needs to find an identity they can agree on, and they need to do it quickly. Correct. They aren't sure whether to go after the pro brexit, working class, semi racist vote to stave of the kippers advance, or go after the more liberal middle ground remainers. They seem to have currently gone after the first group, and have left the door open to many voters drifting to the Greens, Lib Dems or even the nasty party. The need leadership and an identity. A unified voice and platform, and it's just not going to happen unfortunately with Jez at the helm. I love the guy, but he's a shit leader. At a time when the pressure on TNP should be at the maximum, I think they can barely feel it. Cruella is probably lighting up a cigar right now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, Jon said: Correct. They aren't sure whether to go after the pro brexit, working class, semi racist vote to stave of the kippers advance, or go after the more liberal middle ground remainers. They seem to have currently gone after the first group, and have left the door open to many voters drifting to the Greens, Lib Dems or even the nasty party. The need leadership and an identity. A unified voice and platform, and it's just not going to happen unfortunately with Jez at the helm. I love the guy, but he's a shit leader. At a time when the pressure on TNP should be at the maximum, I think they can barely feel it. Cruella is probably lighting up a cigar right now. As John Curtice argues in the column I posted in the Labour thread, it's clearer than ever that they need to go after the 48%. 2/3rds of their members voted to Remain, if they stop shitting on them it might at least stop those votes bleeding away, even if they can't add many more. They won't take this advice though. Brexit left them in a (nearly?) impossible position, but they're playing it dreadfully anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 8 hours ago, peterms said: I'd be surprised if their canvass returns are complete enough or accurate enough to say that. Probably they are extrapolating from turnout figures from the first count, and assuming local areas went the same way as in the last election. Relative turnout can be decisive. As a forecasting technique, it's above chicken entrails and below metereology. Wonder what the chickens think the Villa score will be tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 24, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: As John Curtice argues in the column I posted in the Labour thread, it's clearer than ever that they need to go after the 48%. 2/3rds of their members voted to Remain, if they stop shitting on them it might at least stop those votes bleeding away, even if they can't add many more. They won't take this advice though. Brexit left them in a (nearly?) impossible position, but they're playing it dreadfully anyway. Completely agree, they needed to play it with a straight bat but for most part Corbyn only has one hand on the handle and is swinging it about more wildly than Keith Vaz's giant washing machines could manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jon said: Correct. They aren't sure whether to go after the pro brexit, working class, semi racist vote to stave of the kippers advance, or go after the more liberal middle ground remainers. They seem to have currently gone after the first group, and have left the door open to many voters drifting to the Greens, Lib Dems or even the nasty party. The need leadership and an identity. A unified voice and platform, and it's just not going to happen unfortunately with Jez at the helm. I love the guy, but he's a shit leader. At a time when the pressure on TNP should be at the maximum, I think they can barely feel it. Cruella is probably lighting up a cigar right now. I'lI try and find the link later but I read an interesting article that appeared to show that even in Vote leave areas around 60% of labour voters were voting remain I suspect this desire to follow the will of the people and Corbyns own personal desire to leave the EU will go down as the final nail in the party's coffin Edit - seems Hanoi read the same article and beat me to it !! Edited February 24, 2017 by tonyh29 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: the will of the people *twitch* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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