The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[chrisp65]

It's nice that the man that is dumping subsidised steel on the UK is in town getting free bed and board over at Buck House for a few days.

China is currently dumping steel on the market cheaper than even China can produce it. Apparently, if the UK steel workers volunteered to work for free, we couldn't get anywhere near the price. The government currently sees this as 'market forces' and doesn't see what it can do, other than provide leaflets offering retraining schemes.

I'm sure the price of chinese steel will stay give away cheap once we've closed the last few UK plants. That's the beauty of the freemarket, failing systems, failing industries must be allowed to fail. Other than banks and nuclear power, obviously.

[Xann]

Again I ask what is the alternative? If the rest of the other parties were not so crap people might not have voted tory. 

The alternative is voting on policies.

Do you not have the sneaking suspicion that even Labour would have been better than these self serving parasites?

The Break It, Then Sell It Cheap To Your Chums Party were clearly going to be bunch of arseholes.

If people had bothered to investigate beyond the bilge printed and broadcast by the mouthpieces of the extremely wealthy, the World would likely be a better place, let alone the UK.

Corbyn unelectable? Look at who's in charge ffs!

Just so you know - I don't vote Labour.

Buy a copy of Private Eye Dem, just one will do. It's not just about slating the Tories, they sniff out dodgyness and conflicts of interest at council to government level.

They manage to fill it every two weeks, print apologies where they'll be seen and only occasional find themselves in court for slander - Where they've had their fair share of victories too.

That should be an indication of the shit that goes down, that's ignored by the majority of the press.

[snowychap]

It's nice that the man that is dumping subsidised steel on the UK is in town getting free bed and board over at Buck House for a few days.

Indeed. Flags out for the despotic authoritarians with cash to chuck about!

Edited October 20, 2015 by snowychap

[markavfc40]

 

Governments don't brainwash people into how they live their life  ... that comes from people's upbringing or maybe their education (or the Murdoch media if you believe VT  )

You must have been abroad in 2012 when people were embracing the Paralympics , you must be missing the countless selfless  acts that people do towards the disabled , the elderly the needy , refugees ... don't judge everyone by the actions of the "share if you agree" brigade on social media  , the majority of the population are caring .

What is true is that welfare was manipulated to a point where some people were better off not working , where some people made fraudulent claims and quite rightly people wanted to see an end to this  ... Nobody wanted to see the elderly suffer , nobody wants to see someone dying being told their treatment will stop or that they should get a job  .... that's governments or atos over stepping their brief and they should be held to account for that ... but equally your anger should possibly be towards those who were making the fraudulent claims or exploiting the system to start with .

oh for sure someone will counter with the old Starbucks or bankers argument and that is a whole other debate but I don't think you should give up on society just yet

Tony I actually agree with much of what you say but I don't agree that my anger should equally be towards people who were making fraudulent benefit claims or playing the system. I'd imagine the percentage of those playing the system would be maybe 1 or 2% of those claiming benefits. Usually the kind of people that documentaries on channel 4 or 5 focus on or the kind of people that George Osborne refers to as skivers or those twitching the curtains as you go to work.

You want to get those people back to work then fine. I'd agree with any Government that tries to do that but just as you have inferred there are difficulties in stopping those at the top playing the system then at the bottom you will always get those abusing the system. What this mob have done though is thrown people all in the same pot and the kind of language they have used has stigmatised anyone out of work for whatever reason and made many people look at them and think I bet their coming it. They seem to think they have Carte Blanche to come at every benefit claimant as if they are playing the system but with this approach the vast majority of claimants who happen to be genuine have been unfairly penalised.

I have been pretty lucky in my life. I am 41 and have worked every day since I left school and have never had to claim a penny in welfare from the state. It would be easy to look at others that haven't perhaps had my fortune, have lost jobs for no fault of their own, have become ill, have a disability, or are on low wages that need topping up etc and listen to George Osborne, watch a benefits street etc and think f**k em they are all playing the system. If I was to tar everyone with the same brush though I'd be falling into this Governments trap, as I believe many have, of playing those in work off against those who aren't, just as they played those in the private sector off against those in the public sector to stoke the fires and justify them reducing public sector pay (in real terms) and the changes to pensions etc.

 

[snowychap]

Good stuff from what I can see from Steve Hilton on newsnight.

[PongRiddims]

Again I ask what is the alternative? If the rest of the other parties were not so crap people might not have voted tory. 

The alternative is voting on policies.

Do you not have the sneaking suspicion that even Labour would have been better than these self serving parasites?

The Break It, Then Sell It Cheap To Your Chums Party were clearly going to be bunch of arseholes.

If people had bothered to investigate beyond the bilge printed and broadcast by the mouthpieces of the extremely wealthy, the World would likely be a better place, let alone the UK.

Corbyn unelectable? Look at who's in charge ffs!

Just so you know - I don't vote Labour.

Buy a copy of Private Eye Dem, just one will do. It's not just about slating the Tories, they sniff out dodgyness and conflicts of interest at council to government level.

They manage to fill it every two weeks, print apologies where they'll be seen and only occasional find themselves in court for slander - Where they've had their fair share of victories too.

That should be an indication of the shit that goes down, that's ignored by the majority of the press.

Hear hear

[mockingbird_franklin]

The cuts have been implemented in a particularly vindictive and nasty way based on a flawed ideology (neo-libralism) by on the whole, privileged well educated but intellectually deficient politicians and in support of increased transfer of power and wealth to the already powerful and wealthy and from everybody else. All based on the false but convient premise that fiscal policy is the cause of all problems, when the real root cause problem is based in monetary policy

Would you explain that a bit?

The creation of money (or rather currency which is what we now use as money) out of thin air, we currently pay £40+billion a year for the privilege of allowing someone else to do it for the nation, then lets consider that approximately 95% of all money created (counterfeited is a good accurate definition) is done so by private banks and not sovereign nations through the central bank and you may begin to see the problem. Consider the crazy situation that has private companies creating their own money out of thin air, then passing it off as sovereign currency and charging interest on it, of course this creation is underwriten, by the wealth (labour) of whoever borrows this currency, exactly what happens when it's created for government.

The monetary policy we use effectively means that near to all money carries a liability of debt on creation, so in effect we are using debt as money rather than money, and money is debt, effectively you don't have any money in your pocket or bank account, just someone else's debt liability,there is no real positive value money in the system, and all the time someone is skimming off the top. Our monetary policy has effectively made the supply of what we now call money one huge ponzi scheme.

There is a reason legislation was passed to stop banks issuing their own notes, unfortunately digital currency didn't exist in 1826,

for a fuller understanding, plenty of articles and published works exist that explain in greater detail why our current monetary policy is what needs tackling before fiscal policy

 

Edited October 21, 2015 by mockingbird_franklin

[tonyh29]

Again I ask what is the alternative? If the rest of the other parties were not so crap people might not have voted tory. 

The alternative is voting on policies.

Do you not have the sneaking suspicion that even Labour would have been better than these self serving parasites?

The Break It, Then Sell It Cheap To Your Chums Party were clearly going to be bunch of arseholes.

If people had bothered to investigate beyond the bilge printed and broadcast by the mouthpieces of the extremely wealthy, the World would likely be a better place, let alone the UK.

Corbyn unelectable? Look at who's in charge ffs!

Just so you know - I don't vote Labour.

Buy a copy of Private Eye Dem, just one will do. It's not just about slating the Tories, they sniff out dodgyness and conflicts of interest at council to government level.

They manage to fill it every two weeks, print apologies where they'll be seen and only occasional find themselves in court for slander - Where they've had their fair share of victories too.

That should be an indication of the shit that goes down, that's ignored by the majority of the press.

at the risk of stating the obvious .. Labour are / were (maybe Corbyn will change this ) the same self serving parasites  who also were in it for their chums ( see Labour donors , Tony's cronies , Peers etc etc )

you may not be a Labour voter , but that post certainly harks of being a bit myopic towards them

 

It's curious that you are yet another poster blaming it on a media conspiracy , it's as if people of the same political leanings are visiting  a website somewhere telling them to blame it on the media ... you can't but chuckle at the irony of it

Private Eye is a curious one  , I used to read it quite regularly but it had got a bit stale the last few times I read it , maybe I need to give it another read

Edited October 21, 2015 by tonyh29

[Xann]

I actually don't think they're very good at all Tony.

Blair got stars in his eyes after being courted by the Yanks, thousands dead. Labour did indeed get too comfortable in power and did indeed indulge in cronyism.

They're still not in the same league of greed and callousness as the current incumbents whose administration is a barely disguised smash and grab.

As for my myopia, I can see that you're content with the status quo.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Xann

[tonyh29]

I actually don't think they're very good at all Tony.

Blair got stars in his eyes after being courted by the Yanks, thousands dead. Labour did indeed get too comfortable in power and did indeed indulge in cronyism.

They're still not in the same league of greed and callousness as the current incumbents whose administration is a barely disguised smash and grab.

As for my myopia, I can see that you're content with the status quo.

we will probably agree to differ on which party wins the Monty Burns award for greed and callousness  .. I don't see it as anything other than a draw  though

As for the status Quo  , I've said before my life doesn't change regardless of whose in charge of the country so by and large I'm fairly apathetic ...Twitter couldn't move me to buy rage against the machine ,Stephen Fry couldn't convince me to get angry with a Daily Mail journalist and Russell Brand couldn't get me to vote for Ed   ... maybe  I'm like a lot of other people in that none of these issues have effected me enough to get me out on the streets demanding change . 

I may disagree with a policy here and a policy there from our overlords but ID cards was probably the only one I can think of in living memory that might have got me out on the streets protesting .

Am I concerned about the plight of the NHS ... not overly , my experiences with it (all be it very limited) have on the whole been positive and I don't necessarily  buy into the scare stories put about by lots of peoples with agendas   , ... do I care about swarms of immigrants  ..again not really I've not seen any swarms of immigrants in my road or in my day to day life .. do I care if someone gets a contract because they happened to know the right person  .. not really , that's the way of the world always has been always will be  ..heck do I care about the bus service in my area  , not really I haven't been on a bus in 30 years

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues , it could be argued I'm a bad and selfish because I don't  ... maybe I should be on the streets spitting and desecrating statues of war heroes along with others .... but I'm just not that person ( cue the gif from the previous page )  but even the Europe vote hardly moves me either way , without doubt we'd be better off out but I don't care that strongly about it either way that I'm going to take to social media telling everyone they are evil if the result doesn't go the way I want it to

 

[MakemineVanilla]

The cuts have been implemented in a particularly vindictive and nasty way based on a flawed ideology (neo-libralism) by on the whole, privileged well educated but intellectually deficient politicians and in support of increased transfer of power and wealth to the already powerful and wealthy and from everybody else. All based on the false but convient premise that fiscal policy is the cause of all problems, when the real root cause problem is based in monetary policy

Would you explain that a bit?

The creation of money (or rather currency which is what we now use as money) out of thin air, we currently pay £40+billion a year for the privilege of allowing someone else to do it for the nation, then lets consider that approximately 95% of all money created (counterfeited is a good accurate definition) is done so by private banks and not sovereign nations through the central bank and you may begin to see the problem. Consider the crazy situation that has private companies creating their own money out of thin air, then passing it off as sovereign currency and charging interest on it, of course this creation is underwriten, by the wealth (labour) of whoever borrows this currency, exactly what happens when it's created for government.

The monetary policy we use effectively means that near to all money carries a liability of debt on creation, so in effect we are using debt as money rather than money, and money is debt, effectively you don't have any money in your pocket or bank account, just someone else's debt liability,there is no real positive value money in the system, and all the time someone is skimming off the top. Our monetary policy has effectively made the supply of what we now call money one huge ponzi scheme.

There is a reason legislation was passed to stop banks issuing their own notes, unfortunately digital currency didn't exist in 1826,

for a fuller understanding, plenty of articles and published works exist that explain in greater detail why our current monetary policy is what needs tackling before fiscal policy

 

I understand what you mean by monetary policy, I just wanted to know what system you would suggest to replace the present one.

[chrisp65]

 

 

 I'm fairly apathetic ...

 none of these issues have effected me 

Am I concerned about the plight of the NHS ... not overly

do I care if someone gets a contract because they happened to know the right person  .. not really

do I care about the bus service in my area , not really 

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues , it could be argued I'm bad and selfish

Europe .... without doubt we'd be better off out

I don't care

I'm going to take to telling everyone they are evil

 

Yeah, I've taken this data in a completely fair and neutral way, run it through my patented Vote o matic 200 GX which tells you who you should be voting for.

It thinks: probably tory?

[MakemineVanilla]

I actually don't think they're very good at all Tony.

Blair got stars in his eyes after being courted by the Yanks, thousands dead. Labour did indeed get too comfortable in power and did indeed indulge in cronyism.

They're still not in the same league of greed and callousness as the current incumbents whose administration is a barely disguised smash and grab.

As for my myopia, I can see that you're content with the status quo.

we will probably agree to differ on which party wins the Monty Burns award for greed and callousness  .. I don't see it as anything other than a draw  though

As for the status Quo  , I've said before my life doesn't change regardless of whose in charge of the country so by and large I'm fairly apathetic ...Twitter couldn't move me to buy rage against the machine ,Stephen Fry couldn't convince me to get angry with a Daily Mail journalist and Russell Brand couldn't get me to vote for Ed   ... maybe  I'm like a lot of other people in that none of these issues have effected me enough to get me out on the streets demanding change . 

I may disagree with a policy here and a policy there from our overlords but ID cards was probably the only one I can think of in living memory that might have got me out on the streets protesting .

Am I concerned about the plight of the NHS ... not overly , my experiences with it (all be it very limited) have on the whole been positive and I don't necessarily  buy into the scare stories put about by lots of peoples with agendas   , ... do I care about swarms of immigrants  ..again not really I've not seen any swarms of immigrants in my road or in my day to day life .. do I care if someone gets a contract because they happened to know the right person  .. not really , that's the way of the world always has been always will be  ..heck do I care about the bus service in my area  , not really I haven't been on a bus in 30 years

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues , it could be argued I'm a bad and selfish because I don't  ... maybe I should be on the streets spitting and desecrating statues of war heroes along with others .... but I'm just not that person ( cue the gif from the previous page )  but even the Europe vote hardly moves me either way , without doubt we'd be better off out but I don't care that strongly about it either way that I'm going to take to social media telling everyone they are evil if the result doesn't go the way I want it to

 

Honest, sceptical, cynical and true. 

 

 

[Jon]

 

 

 I'm fairly apathetic ...

 none of these issues have effected me 

Am I concerned about the plight of the NHS ... not overly

do I care if someone gets a contract because they happened to know the right person  .. not really

do I care about the bus service in my area , not really

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues , it could be argued I'm bad and selfish

Europe .... without doubt we'd be better off out

I don't care

I'm going to take to telling everyone they are evil

 

 

Yeah, I've taken this data in a completely fair and neutral way, run it through my patented Vote o matic 200 GX which tells you who you should be voting for.

It thinks: probably tory?

 Saved me the trouble that Mr Crisps. I really don't have much time for the 'I'm OK Jack/I'm comfortable, nothing else really matters' brigade. But that is one of the main reasons, if not THE main reasons, the evil ones get into power.

 

 

[Xann]

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues...

An honest reply.

The guy sitting opposite me has no empathy whatsoever, (his reaction to to the unfortunates drowning in the Med - "**** 'em"). He's still a mate. Fortunately he can't be arsed to vote.

The majority aren't in your position though.

Honest, sceptical, cynical and true. 

Yes, but it's not something I'd applaud.

[tonyh29]

 

 

 I'm fairly apathetic ...

 none of these issues have effected me 

Am I concerned about the plight of the NHS ... not overly

do I care if someone gets a contract because they happened to know the right person  .. not really

do I care about the bus service in my area , not really

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues , it could be argued I'm bad and selfish

Europe .... without doubt we'd be better off out

I don't care

I'm going to take to telling everyone they are evil

 

 

Yeah, I've taken this data in a completely fair and neutral way, run it through my patented Vote o matic 200 GX which tells you who you should be voting for.

It thinks: probably tory?

 

 Saved me the trouble that Mr Crisps. I really don't have much time for the 'I'm OK Jack/I'm comfortable, nothing else really matters' brigade. But that is one of the main reasons, if not THE main reasons, the evil ones get into power.

 

 

That's a tad unfair ..  I could have lied and pretended I  was sheltering 4 Syrians in my spare bedroom whilst weeping about those poor poor over worked nurses but I gave an honest view  ....

it really isn't " I'm OK Jack "  .... but tell , what have you done lately out of interest  , how many marches have you been on , how many Syrians are living in your house ?

[chrisp65]

I nearly helped out at the Foodbank on Saturday morning.

Then I remembered I was really really knackered and just sat on my sofa for about an hour trying to use my mental powers to get the kettle in the kitchen to switch on.

But I think that's much much better than just not caring.

[Jon]

 

 

 I'm fairly apathetic ...

 none of these issues have effected me 

Am I concerned about the plight of the NHS ... not overly

do I care if someone gets a contract because they happened to know the right person  .. not really

do I care about the bus service in my area , not really

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues , it could be argued I'm bad and selfish

Europe .... without doubt we'd be better off out

I don't care

I'm going to take to telling everyone they are evil

 

 

Yeah, I've taken this data in a completely fair and neutral way, run it through my patented Vote o matic 200 GX which tells you who you should be voting for.

It thinks: probably tory?

 

 Saved me the trouble that Mr Crisps. I really don't have much time for the 'I'm OK Jack/I'm comfortable, nothing else really matters' brigade. But that is one of the main reasons, if not THE main reasons, the evil ones get into power.

 

 

That's a tad unfair ..  I could have lied and pretended I  was sheltering 4 Syrians in my spare bedroom whilst weeping about those poor poor over worked nurses but I gave an honest view  ....

it really isn't " I'm OK Jack "  .... but tell , what have you done lately out of interest  , how many marches have you been on , how many Syrians are living in your house ?

Honestly, I don't do as much as I could or should. But I care about all of those issues above that you don't seem to, and I donate to the Green Party, which is the party most closely aligned to my own beliefs, conscience, and ideology. Plus I live in a (not massive) 2 bedroom house, with a wife and daughter, so trying to house fugees would be quite problematic. I hear there are quite a few rooms unoccupied at Bucks pal though .... I would happily vote for a party that intended to increase direct tataxtion to pay for things like the NHS, public services, and helping those less fortunate than myself, including fugees. Presently, that would either be the Greens, or a Corbyn reformed Labour Party. Too many Blairites still in there though, so the Greens it is.

[Dr_Pangloss]

I nearly helped out at the Foodbank on Saturday morning.

Then I remembered I was really really knackered and just sat on my sofa for about an hour trying to use my mental powers to get the kettle in the kitchen to switch on.

But I think that's much much better than just not caring.

But the practical outcome of thinking about it but not bothering and just not caring are identical. So really not much better at all. 

[tonyh29]

It  could be argued that I should care about these issues...

An honest reply.

The guy sitting opposite me has no empathy whatsoever, (his reaction to to the unfortunates drowning in the Med - "**** 'em"). He's still a mate. Fortunately he can't be arsed to vote.

The majority aren't in your position though.

Honest, sceptical, cynical and true. 

Yes, but it's not something I'd applaud.

your mates reaction wasn't the same as mine  , I've never applauded any loss of life or thought **** them ... those events are tragic and sad but wasn't really the direct issue I was talking about  and I'm not sure the comparison is valid ...