Birmingham New Street

[PongRiddims]

Went today, can confirm, was a Yo Sushi

[Davkaus]

Tesco is also oppressive, they sell some things I can't afford. This is literally modern day apartheid.

 

And have you been in to that Sainsbury's that they have now? There may as well be signs on the doors saying "No blacks, no Irish".

Edited October 31, 2015 by Davkaus

[TrinityRoadSteps]

If you think the shops are expensive to keep the chavs out wait until you see the price of train tickets!

[Kingman]

At the risk of going round in circles, I don't think you'll ever get too much light on the platforms at New Street as it's an underground (or at least "sub surface") station. It's one of the downsides of being slap bang in the centre of town. The plan is to keep people upstairs for as long as possible and send them down to the platforms five minutes before the train is due.  I've probably been through New Street a dozen times since it reopened last month and I'm more than happy to wait for my train like that.  Maybe I'm an edge case because after almost twenty years of working on the railway I am very comfortable with negotiating stations, those who aren't as familiar with them may want to get to a platform as early as possible but at New Street you are always going to have to contend with the reality that the platforms are below street level and it's going to be dark.  

 

The obvious solution to this problem is to only catch trains to places served by Birmingham Moor Street.  

Have a 5000'th like 

[MakemineVanilla]

Seems fairly obvious what MmV is on about. He's saying back in the day Rackhams used to physically repel poor people as undesirables but today the same effect is gained by pricing them out.

My logic was simple.

Grand Central is owned by Birmingham City Council which makes it public property and therefore should be inclusive to every citizen.

My perception was that it is not and has been given over to retail - the biggest sign is John Lewis (naming rights).

The ordinary stores can be counted on one hand and so it errs massively towards the exclusive rather than the inclusive.

I just wonder what concessions were made by BCC to attract such fancy brands - what sort of sweetheart deal did JL get?

I have to admit that I am hostile to retail because I just see loads of poorly paid retail jobs and massive mark-ups, where the profits go to owners and the VAT to the government.

I suppose until the same happens to Villa Park, people will find it difficult to grasp my meaning.

[Davkaus]

You don't have to pay to go in, mate.

I don't know if you've ever been in to a John Lewis, but entry doesn't require black tie, and you don't have to be middle class to afford anything.They price match ffs, it's hardly an example of the working class being oppressed.

As to the same happening to Villa Park, well, the staff are mostly poorly paid, there are massive mark ups, and have you seen the price of a match ticket? Villa Park is far less inclusive.

[MakemineVanilla]

You don't have to pay to go in, mate.

I don't know if you've ever been in to a John Lewis, but entry doesn't require black tie, and you don't have to be middle class to afford anything.They price match ffs, it's hardly an example of the working class being oppressed.

As to the same happening to Villa Park, well, the staff are mostly poorly paid, there are massive mark ups, and have you seen the price of a match ticket? Villa Park is far less inclusive.

Perfectly true, so why can't people understand the logic of high prices excluding the poor in other areas of business.?

I understand John Lewis has a good reputation but what about Carluccio's?

They are notorious for taking their staff's tips and using them to top up their pay to minimum wage: a better case of sharp practice and oppressing workers, I cannot think of.

Cath Kidston charges £25 for a pair of knitted gloves - how much of that £25 do they hand to the people who make them; not a lot I would suggest.

How many of the jobs created will need to be topped up with tax-credits because people can't live on them?

I just don't understand why people see the ability to buy a sixty-quid jar of face-cream and eat sushi as a source of pride, and are willing defend it when it is criticised.

There seems a lot of reasons to be proud of Brum but I can't see how a shopping mall could ever be one of them.

 

[Davkaus]

I'm not "proud" of it, I just don't think that the presence of some high cost restaurants/retailers mean that it shouldn't exist.

Regarding your point about it being council property, and therefore it should be inclusive, one thing to consider is that due to it being such a premium location, the rents are likely to be absolutely absurd. The council will be making a fortune from those retail units, which can be reinvested in to the rest of the city.

I agree entirely with your point about staff pay, the minimum wage should allow anyone in full time employment to have a decent standard of life, without welfare, the government having to top up income through tax credits is outrageous, but this is an issue that can't be solved by Birmingham council.

Now, I guess you could argue that councils should rent out their spaces to companies that are ethical, well paying employers. I'm not sure what sort of guidelines they're subject to, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have to get the best return on investment they can, they've probably been rented out to the highest bidder.

[Kingman]

JL is good for price matching electrical goods,

However everything else i come across is Not just Tat… But overpriced Tat!

[Dr_Pangloss]

Seems fairly obvious what MmV is on about. He's saying back in the day Rackhams used to physically repel poor people as undesirables but today the same effect is gained by pricing them out.

My logic was simple.

Grand Central is owned by Birmingham City Council which makes it public property and therefore should be inclusive to every citizen.

My perception was that it is not and has been given over to retail - the biggest sign is John Lewis (naming rights).

The ordinary stores can be counted on one hand and so it errs massively towards the exclusive rather than the inclusive.

I just wonder what concessions were made by BCC to attract such fancy brands - what sort of sweetheart deal did JL get?

I have to admit that I am hostile to retail because I just see loads of poorly paid retail jobs and massive mark-ups, where the profits go to owners and the VAT to the government.

I suppose until the same happens to Villa Park, people will find it difficult to grasp my meaning.

It's actually all very consistent, rip off shopping centre to accompany the absolutely ridiculous 'rip off' pricing mechanisms that the monopolistic train operating companies use to screw the people who need to use these blessed things to get them into work every day. 

[Xela]

Yeah but, but, Yo Sushi!

It is just another example of a public space being annexed by expensive retail outlets which excludes everyone except well-off middle-class consumers.

Birmingham has some of the poorest people in Europe and they are excluded by nothing less than economic apartheid. 

How decadent are we, that we do not notice?

Its just a shopping centre above a train station. Its always been a shopping centre, albeit, not as grand as it is now. 

I have been through it a couple of times and I like it. A huge improvement on what was there before. 

As Mooney will tell you, back in the 1960s the Rackhams department store in Birmingham would have a commissionaire on every door who would turn away undesirables.

Even when the practice stopped a lot of working-class people would not go in because they thought they were not welcome and it was only for posh people (from Four Oaks).

I am just saying that they are achieving the same by excluding people who cannot afford the prices.

Gentrification our kid, gentrification.

 

 

Bring back the commissionaire - they can keep anyone wearing small heath shirts out as well as anyone wearing tracksuits and jogging bottoms!

Seriously though, there has always been people who can't afford to shop in these types of centres. However regrettable that is, we shouldn't not improve our city because of that otherwise we'll get left behind.

You may call it gentrification, I call it progress 

The trend has been right across the UK to tart up the centre of cities with fancy shops and restaurants and it always looks like an attempt to disguise the reality and offer the well-off plausible deniability about the existence of places like Alum Rock or Sparkbrook, both of which are more truthful representations of the state of the city and the failures of the system, than places like the Mailbox or Grand Central, which locals seem to take such pride in.

Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle have all done the same and existence of the poor is treated like a dirty secret.

But I suppose when you are spending a thousand quid on a pair of pumps at Harvey Nichols, having to look at the poor rather ruins the mood.

 

 

Why is Alum Rock and Sparkbrook more truthful representations of the city than say Sutton Coldfield or Edgbaston or Moseley?

City Centres need to attract people in. The more people visiting, the more money is being spent and the more investment is put is put back into the area. HSBC wouldn't have agreed to relocate their UK Bank HQ to Brum if the City wasn't improving. A booming city centre is better for the area as a whole

And I've never spent £1k on a pair of pumps.. i get mine from the Sports Direct sale. You can take the boy out of Erdington...

[MakemineVanilla]

Yeah but, but, Yo Sushi!

It is just another example of a public space being annexed by expensive retail outlets which excludes everyone except well-off middle-class consumers.

Birmingham has some of the poorest people in Europe and they are excluded by nothing less than economic apartheid. 

How decadent are we, that we do not notice?

Its just a shopping centre above a train station. Its always been a shopping centre, albeit, not as grand as it is now. 

I have been through it a couple of times and I like it. A huge improvement on what was there before. 

As Mooney will tell you, back in the 1960s the Rackhams department store in Birmingham would have a commissionaire on every door who would turn away undesirables.

Even when the practice stopped a lot of working-class people would not go in because they thought they were not welcome and it was only for posh people (from Four Oaks).

I am just saying that they are achieving the same by excluding people who cannot afford the prices.

Gentrification our kid, gentrification.

 

 

Bring back the commissionaire - they can keep anyone wearing small heath shirts out as well as anyone wearing tracksuits and jogging bottoms!

Seriously though, there has always been people who can't afford to shop in these types of centres. However regrettable that is, we shouldn't not improve our city because of that otherwise we'll get left behind.

You may call it gentrification, I call it progress 

The trend has been right across the UK to tart up the centre of cities with fancy shops and restaurants and it always looks like an attempt to disguise the reality and offer the well-off plausible deniability about the existence of places like Alum Rock or Sparkbrook, both of which are more truthful representations of the state of the city and the failures of the system, than places like the Mailbox or Grand Central, which locals seem to take such pride in.

Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle have all done the same and existence of the poor is treated like a dirty secret.

But I suppose when you are spending a thousand quid on a pair of pumps at Harvey Nichols, having to look at the poor rather ruins the mood.

 

 

Why is Alum Rock and Sparkbrook more truthful representations of the city than say Sutton Coldfield or Edgbaston or Moseley?

City Centres need to attract people in. The more people visiting, the more money is being spent and the more investment is put is put back into the area. HSBC wouldn't have agreed to relocate their UK Bank HQ to Brum if the City wasn't improving. A booming city centre is better for the area as a whole

And I've never spent £1k on a pair of pumps.. i get mine from the Sports Direct sale. You can take the boy out of Erdington...

Because there is a bigger contrast between the sort of image Grand Central presents and places like Alum Rock, Sparkbrook and there are a lot more areas which could be added to that list.

Prosperous areas like Edgbaston (parts of), Moseley (parts of), Solihull and Sutton are fewer.

If there isn't a Cash Converters and a pawnshop on your High Street and footballers live there then you are probably living somewhere which is better than average and is untypical.

Your example of HSBC is a good one but how that will help the poor I am not sure - although someone has to clean and patrol their premises.

I was bemused to find that Harvey Nichols now refer to high-heels as pumps - it just ain't right I tell you!

 

 

 

[Xela]

I've glad MMV wasn't chief planner at Birmingham City Council otherwise there would have been a giant food bank built above New St Station! 

Shopping Centres have always been partly aspirational though haven't they? I'm guessing if people can't afford to shop at Grand Central now then they wouldn't have been able to shop at the Pallasades before. Grand Central is a lot better looking than the Pallasades was and I guess will bring more people to the city which is a good thing. 

 

[Rugeley Villa]

i think it looks great, kind of took me by surprise a bit when i walked into the shopping centre.

[Wainy316]

Seems fairly obvious what MmV is on about. He's saying back in the day Rackhams used to physically repel poor people as undesirables but today the same effect is gained by pricing them out.

My logic was simple.

Grand Central is owned by Birmingham City Council which makes it public property and therefore should be inclusive to every citizen.

My perception was that it is not and has been given over to retail - the biggest sign is John Lewis (naming rights).

The ordinary stores can be counted on one hand and so it errs massively towards the exclusive rather than the inclusive.

I just wonder what concessions were made by BCC to attract such fancy brands - what sort of sweetheart deal did JL get?

I have to admit that I am hostile to retail because I just see loads of poorly paid retail jobs and massive mark-ups, where the profits go to owners and the VAT to the government.

I suppose until the same happens to Villa Park, people will find it difficult to grasp my meaning.

It's actually all very consistent, rip off shopping centre to accompany the absolutely ridiculous 'rip off' pricing mechanisms that the monopolistic train operating companies use to screw the people who need to use these blessed things to get them into work every day. 

This. If you want to talk about the inclusive/exclusiveness of the train station then let's first apply it to the reason it operates, the trains. The biggest and most appalling of all the day to day rip offs we face in this country.

[MakemineVanilla]

I've glad MMV wasn't chief planner at Birmingham City Council otherwise there would have been a giant food bank built above New St Station! 

Shopping Centres have always been partly aspirational though haven't they? I'm guessing if people can't afford to shop at Grand Central now then they wouldn't have been able to shop at the Pallasades before. Grand Central is a lot better looking than the Pallasades was and I guess will bring more people to the city which is a good thing. 

 

What a fantastic idea - I never thought of that.

They have plenty of empty units and they could easily donate one for a food bank and they could have a machine for donating guilt tax.

 

[mikeyp102]

I like the new look and the fact that they have "exclusive" shops and restaurants there. For a lot of people/businesses this could be the first impression of Birmingham. It has to stand out and make a good impression. First impressions count massively. You step out into a shit station like before and you immediately have a bad impression of Birmingham. However, you step into good surroundings and your impression will be positive.

 

Birmingham is the second city and I'm sick of the likes of Manchester trying to take it away. If this new station makes a new impression and helps put Birmingham back on the map then surely that's a positive for the whole area?

[Dr_Pangloss]

More places for people to buy stuff, is that really going to put Birmingham back on the map? A new train station that seriously addresses platforms, capacity and enables more services may be a good start, not a chuffing shopping centre. 

[The_Rev]

How do you do that at New Street station though?  Given the space constraints at platform level it's practically impossible. 

[Stevo985]

 

I've glad MMV wasn't chief planner at Birmingham City Council otherwise there would have been a giant food bank built above New St Station! 

Shopping Centres have always been partly aspirational though haven't they? I'm guessing if people can't afford to shop at Grand Central now then they wouldn't have been able to shop at the Pallasades before. Grand Central is a lot better looking than the Pallasades was and I guess will bring more people to the city which is a good thing. 

 

What a fantastic idea - I never thought of that.

They have plenty of empty units and they could easily donate one for a food bank and they could have a machine for donating guilt tax.

 

Must remember next time I'm painting my house to ignore the urge and just put all the money I would have spent into a homeless man's hat.

Edit: **** the quoting on this site!

Edited November 1, 2015 by Stevo985