VillaChris Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Probably not, I too think with what I've seen so far we'll barely make 30 points and go down by quite a distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 As it stands we are the worst team in the league. The table doesn't lie. However there are other very poor teams in this league. There is a fighting chance we can stay up but it MUST start with a win against Watford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 4 hours ago, Woodytom said: 1) We still, after season after season, manager after manager, system after system, tactic after tactic, excuse after excuse, are finding ways to divert the blame away from the players. They are the ones who take the field. They are the ones who give the ball away needlessly time and time again. They are the ones who make individual error after individual error. They are the ones who don't give their all nor fight 100% for the cause. They are the ones who are out on the piss at the weekend. The manager has a role to play, and yes, you would have to say that managers have underperformed for whatever reason. But, when are we going to wake up as a fan base and start to question why, the players don take the lead when the chips are down, why don't they organise themselves or why don't they instill some belief in one another. 2) I've worked under some dreadful managers. You don't down tools, and point the finger at him or her. If you do that says all you need to know about yourself. People with anything about them, will stand and be counted. Take the bull by the horns and deliver despite conditions that are not ideal. Too easily footballers are protected and it's got to the stage where I find it all a bit embarrassing tbh. We're going down, and not one of them, not a single one is standing up and taking responsibility. And no I don't mean coming out and speaking in a positive manner in the media. WoodyTom with all due respect, and I see where your point of view lies. unfortunately for the 2) part of your post, the nature of football dictates that 99% of players tend to "down tools" as to make the managers position untenable as they can hardly go to the board and say "He doesn't know what he's doing, Sack him". In my line of business I have to fulfill contracts by organising a project team to fulfill the set task. Now if I did a "Tim" and put my best electrician in the graphics dept. The graphics guy in the warehouse and the warehouse guy as my electrician. Gave my best salesmen the day off, and gave them all instructions like "go on lads, have a real good go" 1) I'd fook up the project 2) probably have the contract cancelled 3) make myself & my "project team" look incapable 4) piss everybody in my team off so that they'd not bother "having a good go" because they'd question my sanity or bollock me that's probably why most/all the players have looked 1) incapable 2) like they think "WTF? Oh well" during the games. what fails me and makes me most annoyed is that we've had glaring examples of TS & PL (even Marshall & KMac) just "getting it all wrong" and McF**k being useless and boring for over 4 seasons now and it seems pretty much so set in stone that without a "Sack the lot and start from scratch" Remi will be putting out fires whilst trying to pick up points till the end of this season at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Tbf grasshopper, an electrician in a graphics department is not the same as putting a rb at lb for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 48 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Probably not, I too think with what I've seen so far we'll barely make 30 points and go down by quite a distance. From eBay we've seen so dar we'll barely make 15 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 6 hours ago, Woodytom said: We still, after season after season, manager after manager, system after system, tactic after tactic, excuse after excuse, are finding ways to divert the blame away from the players. They are the ones who take the field. They are the ones who give the ball away needlessly time and time again. They are the ones who make individual error after individual error. They are the ones who don't give their all nor fight 100% for the cause. They are the ones who are out on the piss at the weekend. The manager has a role to play, and yes, you would have to say that managers have underperformed for whatever reason. But, when are we going to wake up as a fan base and start to question why, the players don take the lead when the chips are down, why don't they organise themselves or why don't they instill some belief in one another. I've worked under some dreadful managers. You don't down tools, and point the finger at him or her. If you do that says all you need to know about yourself. People with anything about them, will stand and be counted. Take the bull by the horns and deliver despite conditions that are not ideal. Too easily footballers are protected and it's got to the stage where I find it all a bit embarrassing tbh. We're going down, and not one of them, not a single one is standing up and taking responsibility. And no I don't mean coming out and speaking in a positive manner in the media. Well we have also changed most of the players over the last few years so it seems that is not the sole reason either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Debate the bit about managers all you want, but the basic premise of what Woodytom is saying is bang on the money. Been saying the same thing for a few years, the players are the ones responsible. they aren't responsible for signing or picking themselves obviously, but they are given an easy ride on here by many. Some people still hold out hope for Nzogbia ffs. We have a squad littered with players who've only ever finished bottom half of the premier league. Where the idea of them being good enough to be a mid table team comes from I don't know. Hutton, Gabby and Richards aside (OK, and the creaking limbs of Cole, Senderos and Lescott.) these players have only ever proven to be good enough over the course of a season to be in the relegation mix wherever they've played. It shocks me that we only have 5 points, but it isn't shocking to be bottom of the league in any way. We had a poor squad when Vlaar, Delph and Benteke were among the ranks. Even if their replacements had hit the ground running we'd still be in trouble as 3 or 4 decent players does not make a good team. Hasn't proven to be a popular viewpoint on here in the main. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 When you outline it like that Chris, it does look a daunting task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Regarding the players, my view is that you can really only have a go if they're not trying, not showing any fight. N'Zogbia is a prime example of this. But if they're simply not capable or good enough then it's not really their 'fault'. And this is what I've been stating for ages. The players aren't good enough. Simply put, they don't have the quality for this division. Maybe management, tactics and motivation haven't helped but ultimately I think even at their best they'd be classed as mediocre. And that fault lies with Lerner for not supplying the money for quality additions. Some will argue the money has been mis-spent but with the figures, especially wage wise, I think it's a very difficult task with zero room for error - when sending so little you can't even afford for one player to be a dud. Fault only lies with those not trying. The players are trying but aren't good enough. Lerner isn't trying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It's just absolutely heartbreaking! I can't handle it. We've circled the plughole season after season, and even though there's 75 points to play for we have to go on some run to get out. Every season, no matter how close we've come, I've had that feeling we'd get out. I don't have that anymore. Everyone involved with the club should hang there head in shame..... Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man U, Chelsea, Everton and Aston Villa. The ever presents. Over two decades of top flight football. You look at those teams and although Everton and Spurs have had the odd dodgy season here and there, they are strong established Prem teams. Always in the top half. That is what we should be, no excuses. It's nothing short of disgusting what has happened to us, we've been run into the ground. I've never been so down as a Villa fan. I don't have anymore words to describe it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 7 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: Regarding the players, my view is that you can really only have a go if they're not trying, not showing any fight. N'Zogbia is a prime example of this. But if they're simply not capable or good enough then it's not really their 'fault'. What if the managers or Lerner are trying their best but are simply not good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 hour ago, villan_007 said: It's just absolutely heartbreaking! I can't handle it. We've circled the plughole season after season, and even though there's 75 points to play for we have to go on some run to get out. Every season, no matter how close we've come, I've had that feeling we'd get out. I don't have that anymore. Everyone involved with the club should hang there head in shame..... Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man U, Chelsea, Everton and Aston Villa. The ever presents. Over two decades of top flight football. You look at those teams and although Everton and Spurs have had the odd dodgy season here and there, they are strong established Prem teams. Always in the top half. That is what we should be, no excuses. It's nothing short of disgusting what has happened to us, we've been run into the ground. I've never been so down as a Villa fan. I don't have anymore words to describe it. It's still just November, don't give up, the club needs everyone pulling together now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 hour ago, villan_007 said: I don't have anymore words to describe it. Liar 1 hour ago, villan_007 said: It's just absolutely heartbreaking! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 11 hours ago, Woodytom said: Tbf grasshopper, an electrician in a graphics department is not the same as putting a rb at lb for example. Tbf WoodyTom, Richardson is further away from being Amavi than an electrician is from being a graphics expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 26, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted November 26, 2015 I believe we will catch the increased parachute payments next season if we go down - and I am sure this is Lerner's fail-safe. Dented pride aside, if Remi can get us playing by the end of the season, I believe even if we go down we stand a very good chance of coming straight back up - I know the standard response to that is 'Oh no we don't!' but again, if Remi can impose a successful playing style, we will have more than enough resources to boss the championship. The only thing that will do for us is the ownership - if they really are forcing Round onto Garde (oo-er) then we really do have a Venkys situation - and that could screw us for a lot longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 We have to be 1 point better than Sunderland, Newcastle, Norwich, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 2 hours ago, Grasshopper said: Tbf WoodyTom, Richardson is further away from being Amavi than an electrician is from being a graphics expert He really isn't. We look as hopeless at the back with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 13 minutes ago, Woodytom said: He really isn't. We look as hopeless at the back with either. That wasn't what he was saying though - he was saying that if we're comparing individuals then Amavi is far better than Richardson, which he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 hour ago, Jareth said: I believe we will catch the increased parachute payments next season if we go down - and I am sure this is Lerner's fail-safe. Dented pride aside, if Remi can get us playing by the end of the season, I believe even if we go down we stand a very good chance of coming straight back up - I know the standard response to that is 'Oh no we don't!' but again, if Remi can impose a successful playing style, we will have more than enough resources to boss the championship. The only thing that will do for us is the ownership - if they really are forcing Round onto Garde (oo-er) then we really do have a Venkys situation - and that could screw us for a lot longer. QPR are doing so well this season ... That does not gurantee success. Our squad has zero experience in that league and lets not forget its more games that premier league. I think we will struggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Too far adrift already as it alters the way you perform and I'm not sure our team can cope with that. Also because we do not have players in the main used to fighting relegation battles or in fact any battles in this league , that is a disadvantage. I've accepted the fact we are down and just think we should be planning for the future now not the present. I think after we lose at the weekend then all fans will be on board with this notion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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