Woodytom Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Tom - in the fantasy scenario, if we did win 2 in a row and close the gap to 6 points, say, is it not likely that we will gain a bit of momentum from that and stand a "decent" chance of winning a few more? You'd like to think so, but I just don't believe in this club. It's not even the team (which I believe is truly shite), it's the whole club that I don't believe has the mentality, the ruthlessness and the lack of fear to put such a run together. We never do so why on earth would we now? We're the easiest team to play against and have been for a while now. Watched a documentary on the arsenal invincibles and ray parlour mentioned how many times they'd won a game in the tunnel before kick off. I'd imagime we've lost games in the tunnel. I don't particularly see it as negativity. I applaud those who still believe like trent did, but I think they are just looking 1/2 games into the future and saying, what if? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 26 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: So.....which 3 teams are we going to finish above ? Middlesborough, Hull and Brighton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 1 hour ago, briny_ear said: In reality, a miracle is a minuscule bit nearer than a couple of games ago, no more. How is it nearer? I'm not being arsey, its a genuine question as I might be missing something but the 4 points we picked up haven't got us closer to safety have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 IIRC we went into last weekend 8pts from safety and came out of it 10pts from safety. "Aww fiddlesticks" as Butters would say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: How is it nearer? I'm not being arsey, its a genuine question as I might be missing something but the 4 points we picked up haven't got us closer to safety have they? I am not supporting the following viewpoint as I do not see it either but I am guessing that people may feel it is nearer because we are unbeaten in a couple of league games and added to the two cup games that makes a four match unbeaten run which may give a little confidence or momentum. As I say I am not buying that as frankly that masks the performances which were largely woeful and lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 Whilst I also don't subscribe to the fact that we're nearer pointswise, I do think we are performing at, or close to, a level that gives us the merest sniff of a chance. If the referee had not been shit in the Leicester game we would have won. That would be 6 points from 6 against top of the league and a Palace side who are in or around top 6 or 7. So for me the performances are better than the return. We need to start getting the return too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We are running out of games though. Assuming Newcastle and Sunderland come with us then we need a 10 or 11 point swing (if you factor in goal difference) on Swansea in 17 games, could be up to a dozen points if we are talking of dragging in Bournemouth and Norwich. Now take those teams we are trying to catch and look up until you see the clubs who have that kind of gap on them. It's Spurs, West Ham & Manchester United. We need that kind of form between now and May to stand a chance. We've won 2 games all season, can we realistically be expected to win 8 or 9 of our remaining fixtures? We are going down. If we go down fighting then in some ways that will be more heartbreaking than going down like Derby did, at least that way it's easy just to accept relegation with months to go and not have your heart broken in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 I agree Rev. It's not realistic. Why do people keep inferring that anyone is calling it realistic? We aren't. It isn't. No-one's saying it is. All it is is 'possible', and you go from there. You're right too that the games are running out, which is why these draws are absolutely sod all use. At this point going into the last 5 minutes with the score at 1-1 I'd rather go for it and lose than try to protect the point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, BOF said: IIRC we went into last weekend 8pts from safety and came out of it 10pts from safety. "Aww fiddlesticks" as Butters would say. We're not 8 or 10 points from safety. We're 24-28 points from safety. I really think people too much stock in what teams around us are doing. If we get above 36 points by the end of the season then we're in with a shout. In that respect we're closer as 4 points from 2 games is well on track to get us there (the problem will be keeping that up over the rest of the season) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I said it best when I said 'our target should always be to win the next game', that's always achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We might be doing better, but the results around us couldn't have gone much worse. If that trend continues then we're screwed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 My other concern (as if I needed another one), is that with the top of the league continuing to fail to behave like the top of the league should, and with the bottom end of the league continuing to do what they've been doing, this could actually turn out to be the first season in a while where it requires 40pts to stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 1 minute ago, BOF said: My other concern (as if I needed another one), is that with the top of the league continuing to fail to behave like the top of the league should, and with the bottom end of the league continuing to do what they've been doing, this could actually turn out to be the first season in a while where it requires 40pts to stay up. I get this feeling too. Has been a while. We will pick up but I think we could just fail to outrun fate. Fortunately nobody actually dies upon relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 2 hours ago, BOF said: I would have thought in a conversation about bridging the gap to those above us, the requirement for them to drop points would really go without saying. It doesn't matter what we do if we're not getting more points than those above us. That also makes a mockery of this silly notion that only we can get ourselves out of this. No, we need to do our bit AND we need our rivals to slip up. Both things must happen. If one thing OR the other doesn't, then we're f***ed. Having said all of that, the muck immediately above us does seem to have an annoying habit of picking up unexpected wins. The sooner the big boys in the league start to act like it against our rivals, the better for us. But again, in case it's not inferred, yes the odds are stacked stacked stacked against us getting out of this mess. We're relying on a footballing miracle. A never-before-done miracle from a Premier League point of view. I'm sorry BOF, but I think that's a straw man you're destroying. Surely nobody denies that other teams' results are important, and will ultimately help decide what happens; the argument is that we should only be focusing on our games and our performances because we're currently so far behind that we're not in a position where their results matter. If we get to within 3 points of safety, I'll start worrying about other results. For now, we just need to win a few matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted January 21, 2016 35 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: We might be doing better, but the results around us couldn't have gone much worse. If that trend continues then we're screwed anyway. it won't continue though, that's kind of my point in my previous post. If newcastle and Swansea keep winning and rise up the table, someone else will replace them at the bottom. At the end of the season it'll be the same sort of points tally as it always is. It doesn't matter if we're 10 points behind now or 1 point behind or 10 points ahead. If we aim for that 36-40 point area we'll have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 32 minutes ago, BOF said: My other concern (as if I needed another one), is that with the top of the league continuing to fail to behave like the top of the league should, and with the bottom end of the league continuing to do what they've been doing, this could actually turn out to be the first season in a while where it requires 40pts to stay up. It could be 30 points to stay up and i doubt we'd get them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante_Lockhart Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: it won't continue though, that's kind of my point in my previous post. If newcastle and Swansea keep winning and rise up the table, someone else will replace them at the bottom. At the end of the season it'll be the same sort of points tally as it always is. It doesn't matter if we're 10 points behind now or 1 point behind or 10 points ahead. If we aim for that 36-40 point area we'll have a chance. Concentrate on our own results, that what we can control. If we keep getting points then we'll have more chance of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Other results definitly matters. If we get 6-7 out of the next three. We could only be 5-6 points to Norwich who are currently 16th. Win next three and we could be only 2 points to them. Swansea arent pulling the trees yet getting tge odd results. Theyve also won with a lucky goal against West Brom. They arent scoring yet somehow winning. If we could get some of these we could be in the mix. Wigan used to turn it in the last couple of games. If we are around 30 points after Utd. Then we have a chance *depending on others*. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Concentrate on our own results, that what we can control. If we keep getting points then we'll have more chance of survival. I appreciate what you are saying but I think psychologically to the team it will matter. We have taken 4 points from the last 2 games but are only 1 point closer to safety than we were. If we continued that ratio of gaining a point on the 4th bottom team every two games we would run out of games before we got safe. If we are getting relatively positive results but still not making decent ground on those above us because they are getting results then that will soon have a demoralising effect no matter how well we are doing. Edited January 21, 2016 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted January 21, 2016 32 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm sorry BOF, but I think that's a straw man you're destroying. Well here's that straw man that I'm destroying. On 18/1/2016 at 21:32, Zatman said: only people that can help us is Aston Villa and we deserve to be on our shit position because of that I'm responding to what people post. Not some leap of logic that I've made from their own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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