dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thing is, no set of supporters ever 'deserve' relegation. Any more than they deserve promotion or trophies. Our club is in the middle of a serious identity crisis. The players train in state of the art facilities all week and then turn up to a 40,000+ stadium and can't cope. I sometimes think they'd play with more freedom if they practiced on a boggy field all week and turned up to a stadium like the sty. Added to that I have felt absolutely no connection with any of the players for years now. Where are the Mersons who buy into the club? Gabby is nothing but an engineered 'Mr Villa'. He doesn't give a crap. Our players seem to either not want to be here or seem scared to death of how big it is. I don't see any middle ground. Relegation could be a blessing and if the writing is on the wall then i'd rather it happen early and in spectacular style so we can experiment as soon as possible to see who amongst our squad has the desire, application and ability to get this club back on its feet. Getting relegated is football. 5 consecutive seasons like we've had is soul destroying. The state of our club on field is a direct result of sustained and deliberate neglect from the owner. For a club of our stature, with over 100 seasons in the top flight and having won a European Championship to be not just going down, but to be on track for the worst season in Premier League history, is an incredible effort. We aren't Wolves or Derby. We're Aston **** Villa. We don't automatically deserve success, but we don't deserve to have gone from consecutive 6ths to a cautionary tale in a few short years. Why? As you say, that's football. Looking back, wouldn't we have much preferred it to happen 5 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thing is, no set of supporters ever 'deserve' relegation. Any more than they deserve promotion or trophies. Our club is in the middle of a serious identity crisis. The players train in state of the art facilities all week and then turn up to a 40,000+ stadium and can't cope. I sometimes think they'd play with more freedom if they practiced on a boggy field all week and turned up to a stadium like the sty. Added to that I have felt absolutely no connection with any of the players for years now. Where are the Mersons who buy into the club? Gabby is nothing but an engineered 'Mr Villa'. He doesn't give a crap. Our players seem to either not want to be here or seem scared to death of how big it is. I don't see any middle ground. Relegation could be a blessing and if the writing is on the wall then i'd rather it happen early and in spectacular style so we can experiment as soon as possible to see who amongst our squad has the desire, application and ability to get this club back on its feet. Getting relegated is football. 5 consecutive seasons like we've had is soul destroying. The state of our club on field is a direct result of sustained and deliberate neglect from the owner. For a club of our stature, with over 100 seasons in the top flight and having won a European Championship to be not just going down, but to be on track for the worst season in Premier League history, is an incredible effort. We aren't Wolves or Derby. We're Aston **** Villa. We don't automatically deserve success, but we don't deserve to have gone from consecutive 6ths to a cautionary tale in a few short years. Why? As you say, that's football. Looking back, wouldn't we have much preferred it to happen 5 years ago? I absolutely wish we'd gone down during our first relegation battle, although we could never have seen how bad it would get at the time. It's not the relegation that's got to me. It's the utter disintegration of our club as a meaningful part of English football. Hell, I wish we'd gone down in the final year under Ellis. Back then I'd have been sure we'd come back up before long. Now I don't see it at all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 3 hours ago, Brumerican said: Relegation means you won't see many Villa streams next season so all you overseas , long distance and stayaway fans are really going to feel it next season. so if we start winning again us overseas fans were the bad luck charm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 34 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Why? As you say, that's football. Looking back, wouldn't we have much preferred it to happen 5 years ago? Why would that have been helpful? There's no rule that says if you go down and come back up, that you can't go down again. There's no reason to believe the club would be stronger now if it had been relegated five years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why? As you say, that's football. Looking back, wouldn't we have much preferred it to happen 5 years ago? Why would that have been helpful? There's no rule that says if you go down and come back up, that you can't go down again. There's no reason to believe the club would be stronger now if it had been relegated five years ago. I disagree. The losing mentality we've developed over the past 5 years has permeated every aspect of the club now. Randy's total disregard for our league position and our performances in the name of balancing the books has left the entire club with a belief that success is impossible so why bother trying. Meanwhile yoyo clubs like Southampton, Swansea and Leicester are making a good fist of it with a positive mentality, and if the money clubs let their guard down, they're poised to strike. If we'd gone down, our attitude would have changed sooner and maybe the owner would have cut his losses and sold. We certainly wouldn't have had the life totally sucked out of the club. Over the past few years, the drop has been looming to the point of inevitability, but we've never really, genuinely tried to address it because we kept surviving. Now instead of having gone down after a bad season but as a proud club, we're going down as a rudderless hollow shell wearing Aston Villa colours. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: I disagree. The losing mentality we've developed over the past 5 years has permeated every aspect of the club now. Randy's total disregard for our league position and our performances in the name of balancing the books has left the entire club with a belief that success is impossible so why bother trying. Meanwhile yoyo clubs like Southampton, Swansea and Leicester are making a good fist of it with a positive mentality, and if the money clubs let their guard down, they're poised to strike. If we'd gone down, our attitude would have changed sooner and maybe the owner would have cut his losses and sold. We certainly wouldn't have had the life totally sucked out of the club. Over the past few years, the drop has been looming to the point of inevitability, but we've never really, genuinely tried to address it because we kept surviving. Now instead of having gone down after a bad season but as a proud club, we're going down as a rudderless hollow shell wearing Aston Villa colours. Thank you for explaining that. I understand what you're saying now, and I can see a certain seductive logic to that, but I can't agree. Five years ago we had wages at 90% of turnover and none of those players will have had relegation release clauses in their contracts. We'd have been in administration within six months. At least the club should survive relegation next season. Edited December 15, 2015 by HanoiVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Relegation means you won't see many Villa streams next season so all you overseas , long distance and stayaway fans are really going to feel it next season. You mean not being able to watch is somehow a bad thing? [emoji2] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 There are 66 points to play for and we need about half of them. Bring it on! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 If we manage to get 10 points between now and the end of the season i'll be amazed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 4 minutes ago, pacbuddies said: You mean not being able to watch is somehow a bad thing? I get fantastic streams over here for the games but it has been painful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 1 hour ago, AshVilla said: If we manage to get 10 points between now and the end of the season i'll be amazed i think the record lowest points total is still on the cards to be honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 15, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted December 15, 2015 If we don't win the "must win" games against direct opponents that are coming up, then we will struggle to reach 15 points this season IMO. Let alone avoid the drop. The fact that Lerner has managed to get us in this situation after so many warnings and when the huge jackpot of cash was just about to land next season is beyond ridiculous. The gulf between Premier and Championship will widen, and we will be on the wrong side of the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I think we'll stay up, I'm fairly confident of it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 15, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why? As you say, that's football. Looking back, wouldn't we have much preferred it to happen 5 years ago? Why would that have been helpful? There's no rule that says if you go down and come back up, that you can't go down again. There's no reason to believe the club would be stronger now if it had been relegated five years ago. Because, quite frankly, I'd have preferred to have spent the last 5 seasons in the championship finishing 10th, making the odd push for and odd appearance in the playoffs than the shit we've had to endure. We might have actually built something and had a little fun. Lots of caveats there I know, but I hope the point comes across. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 15, 2015 Moderator Share Posted December 15, 2015 4 hours ago, Richard said: Under Elllis we had pissed off fans and an owner we wanted out. Someof the people on here, Rob, you, Peter, even myself still went to games. It says a lot about lerner that under him we have decided to give it neck I can't be certain of this, because it doesn't work like that, with me at least, but I lost interest kind of in an instant, or in one game 2 years ago. I just realised "I've spent 50 quid on a train ticket, given up a whole day, got up early and I'm watching a bunch of clueless players with clueless tactics being outplayed by a committed, but not very good Sheffield Utd team in a cup I'd really like to see Villa win. I'd just got back to the UK from a brilliant period working and holidaying abroad and was about to go off again the next week. The whole thing the prices, the travel costs, the lack of regard for supporters, the hassle of it all for no reward. The absence of many mates who'd stopped going... I mean maybe if we'd been playing like Manc City or whoever these past few years, then I'd still be going, but I think the game and its values had just become something I didn't want to be involved with any more. I don't "blame" Randy Lerner for it. He hasn't helped, but I think it's wider than a well intentioned, but hapless owner in my case. I can and do understand people being angry at whoever they blame for the state of the club - it should not have happened. I don't think anyone is being unfair to hold Randy Lerner responsible. He is. He's the man in charge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 3 hours ago, useless said: I think we'll stay up, I'm fairly confident of it. Really? We'r now 6/1 to stay up… Get your wheelbarrows of cash down to the bookies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 We're only eight points adrift, teams have come back from worse, Sunderland being a recent example and also of course Leicester last season (interestingly - when they were ten points adrift, last season I predicted that they would stay up). Our situation isn't yet as grave as the ones those two teams found themselves in, and I'm sure there are other examples too. I think if we can reduce the number of points between ourselves and the team in 17th place to around 3 or 4 points (or hopefully less, of course) before January's over with, and we make a few good signings, then I think we'll give ourselves a real good chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 8 hours ago, Richard said: Under Elllis we had pissed off fans and an owner we wanted out. Someof the people on here, Rob, you, Peter, even myself still went to games. It says a lot about lerner that under him we have decided to give it neck It's still less than 10 years ago but it seems rather quaint looking back at Ellis as the typical local businessman-made-rich old duffer owning a local football club. We all thought that when he sold up to a richer, more ambitious, and younger owner, success would surely come. Oh. At least Ellis took the flak and was proactive (perhaps too much) in changing managers. Lerner doesn't even what to be the chairman any more, I am sure he is essentially a nice bloke and has less rampant egotism than Doug, but the last 5 years under his ownership it has been a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakid007 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Garde must have agreed sufficient funds to strengthen team in January. Lerner can invest 25m-50m now and see his assets make money or be a donut and watch our value plummet with relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw_nuff Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Forget the new chairman. We need to invest in a couple of Chinese floodlight operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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