Relegation Thread Version...99?!

[DCJonah]

23 minutes ago, bose said:

But failed miserably this year and made it nearly impossible for his successor to succeed.

He was sacked with 27 games left to play. He played his part but I think there's people still at the club that also played their part in making it extremely difficult for Garde.

[DCJonah]

30 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Why are people talking about yesterday like that's what is going to relegate us.

It was a good point away at a decent side.

We're not going down because we drew at Southampton.

I think drawing games where we had a great chance to win will play a pretty big part in us going down.

[GeordieVillan]

1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

Perhaps but it wasn't too late. There were 28 games to go when he was sacked. We were 2 points behind both Newcastle and Sunderland, 4 behind Bournemouth, 5 behind Norwich. We were in trouble but it wasn't a lost cause and at that stage I thought we had a chance of staying up.

We now have a handful of games less to play and are now 6 points from the team above us and 8 from safety and sadly I don't think we have any chance of staying up. That pessimism isn't down to Garde as it is too early to judge him it is simply down to a realization that after 15 games this squad has now shown itself to simply not be good enough.

For me serious questions need to be asked as to regards our recruitment policy over the summer as quite clearly despite spending 50 odd mill too many of these players are way below Prem league standard.

Again - as I said earlier - our best players appear to be Ayew, Veretout, Richards and Amavi. Gana looks solid and reliable, and Adama could be great if/when he gets a chance. We can't comment yet on Llori or Crespo. Gestede is doing ok I think, but we should never has expected him to be any more than an impact player.

Based on that - how can this be down to our summer recruitment?

[DCJonah]

Just because they are our better players doesn't mean they're good enough. It just means we've added more players who aren't good enough to the dross Lambert signed.

[Villarocker]

Benteke misses from a couple of yards, Sturridge clean through hits the corner flag, Newcastle score from an own goal and Moreno scores a brilliant goal that is incorrectly ruled off-side. If all that doesn't tell you we're meant to go down this season then nothing will! 

Don't we also have the worst GD now? 

 

[Demitri_C]

36 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

Its not unrealistic - its a fact - we are in no worse a position than we were at the start of the day - we need 3 wins more than the other 5 teams down there to get out of this.

Its not looking good, but I refuse to implode over a result that doesn't change our position too much. If we get battered by Arsenal next week, and the other teams above us win, then we are in further trouble and I will need to vent!

No worse...but more importantly no better. Its a disater for us. Its not a point gain, its two lost in my eyes. we had to win yesterday and we failed again

[Arj Guy]

5 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

Again - as I said earlier - our best players appear to be Ayew, Veretout, Richards and Amavi. Gana looks solid and reliable, and Adama could be great if/when he gets a chance. We can't comment yet on Llori or Crespo. Gestede is doing ok I think, but we should never has expected him to be any more than an impact player.

Based on that - how can this be down to our summer recruitment?

We had 50 million to spend yet are left with a squad without a PL standard centre forward. It is everything to do with our summer recruitment.

[GeordieVillan]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Just because they are our better players doesn't mean they're good enough. It just means we've added more players who aren't good enough to the dross Lambert signed.

Garbage. If you put Ayew/Veretout/Richards/Amavi into any of Stoke, West Brown, West Ham teams - they would be flying even more than they are now, let alone put them into an even better team.

Our problem is we will have loads of average players who havn't done the business for us for 4 years, and they are still holding us back now. So to an extent I agree with your Lambert dross comment.

Sherwood totally shot to bits any confidence in the squad, and now Remi is starting from scratch effectively. Veretout already looks 10 times the player he did in any game under Sherwood.

[GeordieVillan]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

No worse...but more importantly no better. Its a disater for us. Its not a point gain, its two lost in my eyes. we had to win yesterday and we failed again

A win yesterday would have been a shock result, like Newcastle and Bournemouth results were. As long as we don't fall further behind next week, our real chance to gain ground is the games that follow. If we blow that, then yes I agree with you, it will be very very difficult if not impossible.

[GeordieVillan]

3 minutes ago, Arj Guy said:

We had 50 million to spend yet are left with a squad without a PL standard centre forward. It is everything to do with our summer recruitment.

But who you are blaming for that - Sherwood or the Board or both? Its clear that we were in for Adebayor, who I assume was Sherwood's choice. The fact that didn't work out might ultimately be the reason for our demise.

Regardless - the absence of a centre forward does not mean the rest of the signings aren't good enough.

[Villarocker]

Some think Norwich and Bournemouth will go down with us this season. They are two of last season's promoted teams. The other - Watford - are (I think) the only team to sign more players than us in the summer. What does that tell you about our transfer dealings and management? 

Also, this will be a factor too. Newcastle, Norwich and Bournemouth haven't changed their managers yet. My point being that they still have that possible new manager bounce available to them. 

We're gone. It would seriously take a miracle to save our sorry asses.

You know, I'm kind of glad that this will happen to Lerner. He deserves it for being such an inept owner. This guy is supposed to have a passion for historical and artistic things. He'd probably use Mr Sheen to polish The Mona Lisa if he owned it! 

[markavfc40]

14 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

Again - as I said earlier - our best players appear to be Ayew, Veretout, Richards and Amavi. Gana looks solid and reliable, and Adama could be great if/when he gets a chance. We can't comment yet on Llori or Crespo. Gestede is doing ok I think, but we should never has expected him to be any more than an impact player.

Based on that - how can this be down to our summer recruitment?

I don't agree sadly. I don't think Gana and Veretout get even close to the level of player they were replacing in Delph and Cleverley. Richards and Ayew  I like. I think Amavi looked ok before his injury. Adama was an 8 mill purchase on it seems a player who is going to need at least a season before we may see the best of him. We didn't have the luxury of spending that kind of money on a player for the future.

Gestede looks like a Championship level plodder. Crespo a squad filler and who knows with Illori as we haven't seen him.

Too many of these players are either still settling in or nowhere near to settling in. Some may get completely up to the speed/level of this league. Others may never. Whichever way we slice the cake the time it has/will have taken will mean, in terms of our top flight status, it will almost certainly have come too late. Therefore for me we got it completely wrong over the summer and signed far too many players not able to hit the ground running in this league.

This club finished 17th last season on 38 points. We lost our 4 best players and gambled on unknown quantities, aside from Richards, to replace them. I'd love to think otherwise but that policy for me has failed as by the time these players collectively get up to speed, if they ever do, it will be too late.

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, GeordieVillan said:

Garbage. If you put Ayew/Veretout/Richards/Amavi into any of Stoke, West Brown, West Ham teams - they would be flying even more than they are now, let alone put them into an even better team.

Our problem is we will have loads of average players who havn't done the business for us for 4 years, and they are still holding us back now. So to an extent I agree with your Lambert dross comment.

Sherwood totally shot to bits any confidence in the squad, and now Remi is starting from scratch effectively. Veretout already looks 10 times the player he did in any game under Sherwood.

There's really very little to suggest that. There's absolutely nothing to back up the statement that it's garbage.

[Villarocker]

Veretout looks better for two reasons:

1) He's been here longer. 

2) He couldn't get any worse. 

[Woodytom]

Down!! And won't be missed by anybody.

Such a nothing club right now.? 

[sharkyvilla]

As much as I think Traore might become brilliant, it was a gamble that's cost us, since we've spent £7m on him and got almost zero contribution.  That and the money spent on Gestede, Jesus Christ whoever scouted him needs shooting.  The rest of the spending has been OK really, but that's £13m that could have gone on a goalscorer.

[GeordieVillan]

3 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't agree sadly. I don't think Gana and Veretout get even close to the level of player they were replacing in Delph and Cleverley. Richards and Ayew  I like. I think Amavi looked ok before his injury. Adama was an 8 mill purchase on it seems a player who is going to need at least a season before we may see the best of him. We didn't have the luxury of spending that kind of money on a player for the future.

Gestede looks like a Championship level plodder. Crespo a squad filler and who knows with Illori as we haven't seen him.

Too many of these players are either still settling in or nowhere near to settling in. Some may get completely up to the speed/level of this league. Others may never. Whichever way we slice the cake the time it has/will have taken will mean, in terms of our top flight status, it will almost certainly have come too late. Therefore for me we got it completely wrong over the summer and signed far too many players not able to hit the ground running in this league.

This club finished 17th last season on 38 points. We lost our 4 best players and gambled on unknown quantities, aside from Richards, to replace them. I'd love to think otherwise but that policy for me has failed as by the time these players collectively get up to speed, if they ever do, it will be too late.

Cleverly was poor for the vast majority of last season, and is only remembered fondly now because he chipped in with a few goals when Sherwood came in. Delph was a consistent part of the worst Villa midfield ever in my memory - we were the most boring team in the league for the last 3-4 years. Granted I would happily take boredom over relegation. Vlaar missed long periods of the season with injury, but yes when he played I thought he was good, although not all agreed. Benteke - yes, he is the one we 100% have not adequately replaced.

Lets not re-write history though - other than Benteke, I don't think many were that bothered about the other departures, aside from the manner of Delph/Snakehead's leaving.

Its not looking good at the minute, but I refuse to resign myself to relegation until I see how we do in the next 6 games. If we can stay in touch and hopefully close the gap, then the purchase of a good striker in January might just save us.

[andym]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think drawing games where we had a great chance to win will play a pretty big part in us going down.

agree, although i'm not sure id class yesterdays game as a great chance to win. Obviously I know we were winning with about 20 mins to go, but we had looked fragile all game. People keep going on about southamptons bad form going into the game, yet they are still a good team, and what about our form. We are not exactly brimming with confidence are we? 

It seems odd to me that the same people who keep reminding us how rubbish our team is (and i generally agree with them), how we were shit and lucky to be in the game yesterday as southamptons finishing was so poor are the same ones doing the most complaining that we only got a point and not all 3. 

2-1 up at home to Sunderland, 2-0 up with 20 mins to go away at leicester, 1-0 up at home to swansea (a team in a similar horrendous run of form to us), Watford last week. Those are great chances to win, and the type of blown games that are going to cost us.

 

[GeordieVillan]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

There's really very little to suggest that. There's absolutely nothing to back up the statement that it's garbage.

You are right - I shouldn't have said "garbage". I do though disagree with you - and its all about opinions. I think that Ayew, Veretout, Gana and Amavi have already shown they are good enough to be Premier League players, the other summer signings may do that in due course, or they may not.

[DCJonah]

Just now, andym said:

agree, although i'm not sure id class yesterdays game as a great chance to win. Obviously I know we were winning with about 20 mins to go, but we had looked fragile all game. People keep going on about southamptons bad form going into the game, yet they are still a good team, and what about our form. We are not exactly brimming with confidence are we? 

It seems odd to me that the same people who keep reminding us how rubbish our team is (and i generally agree with them), how we were shit and lucky to be in the game yesterday as southamptons finishing was so poor are the same ones doing the most complaining that we only got a point and not all 3. 

2-1 up at home to Sunderland, 2-0 up with 20 mins to go away at leicester, 1-0 up at home to swansea (a team in a similar horrendous run of form to us), Watford last week. Those are great chances to win, and the type of blown games that are going to cost us.

 

Yep, we've blown loads of opportunities because we're not good enough and deserve to be bottom.

The game Saturday was not always there for the win, they should have wrapped the game up after 10 minutes. But as the game went on I felt we could have pushed more and tried to get the 3 points we desperately needed.