tonyh29 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Finally I've seen a balanced argument about events in Hungary instead of this media witch hunt to make them look like Stalin not it that anyone will pay attention of course , men laying on railway tracks being handcuffed sells far more copies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 All these Syrians and Afghans walking to Germany, or getting trains and buses, holding pictures of the German Chancellor. On crutches or holding children.It's odd isn't it. Will the Tutsis start genociding the Huns now? And will a Cambodian president start massacring farmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question...Tuesday at 9:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question...It's a ridiculous question for more reasons than I can muster the energy to list. Your post is disrespectful to pretty much everyone, including the IKEA victims. Edited September 4, 2015 by Michelsen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I work in what is called a Urban15-area. That means that it is one of the 15 most poor areas in Sweden. This area has nothing to do at all with Sweden. Benefits are being payed out and there may be a sense of control from Swedish authorities but there really is none. I know who the new people coming to Sweden is and they are definitely not refugees fleeing from any war. The last days we have had rioting and the people from this area have had the brilliant idea to throw stones at the police. I am empathically drained out and you could call me how much racist that you want but I don't care anymore and I think Sweden have had enough of its share. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 On the subject of sharing photos, here is an interesting piece....I do understand the public’s desire to share it — the overwhelming urgency with which we must desperately provide evidence of tragedy, so those with a harmful stance on asylum can reassess. The logic is there: If you wish this child were still alive (why wouldn’t you), then you must welcome refugees so others like him may live. It makes sense. Only, it’s impossible not to be cynical of the click-bait like nature of it all. In particular from a British press, who have both danced lightly and bulldozed over the line, when presenting on the topic of immigration and Muslims. Are they nameless burden-on-society migrants; or refugees? Are they cockroaches who deserve to drown (as The Sun has published in the recent past, in an article still on their website); or are they the image of a dead child who should have legally been let into Europe to live?Here is another question it seems the media are unsure of — Do we need to see photos of death to gauge the severity of it? Last week journalist, Alison Parker and her cameraman, Adam Ward were shot live on air by an ex colleague. Western media was clear on the message: don’t share the video or stills from it. News outlets across America and Britain urged social media users to share only the pictures they ran with. Smiling photos of the pair at work or with their partners, nestled into a happy time of life. Whilst unavoidable debates took place around America’s gun-laws, the discussions would not be allowed to interrupt our perception of Parker and Ward as people, not as tragic political examples.Aylan Kurdi has been made an example of. As well-meaning as the photograph’s sharers may be, unfortunately it is not his life that we are urged to remember and consequently do better by, but a sensationalism of his horrific death.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I work in what is called a Urban15-area. That means that it is one of the 15 most poor areas in Sweden. This area has nothing to do at all with Sweden. Benefits are being payed out and there may be a sense of control from Swedish authorities but there really is none. I know who the new people coming to Sweden is and they are definitely not refugees fleeing from any war. The last days we have had rioting and the people from this area have had the brilliant idea to throw stones at the police. I am empathically drained out and you could call me how much racist that you want but I don't care anymore and I think Sweden have had enough of its share.A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question... Yeah, **** 'em all, let them drown if they can't fight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I work in what is called a Urban15-area. That means that it is one of the 15 most poor areas in Sweden. This area has nothing to do at all with Sweden. Benefits are being payed out and there may be a sense of control from Swedish authorities but there really is none. I know who the new people coming to Sweden is and they are definitely not refugees fleeing from any war. The last days we have had rioting and the people from this area have had the brilliant idea to throw stones at the police. I am empathically drained out and you could call me how much racist that you want but I don't care anymore and I think Sweden have had enough of its share. A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question... Yeah, **** 'em all, let them drown if they can't fight.Or you could find a way to stop people from dying 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question...I'm struggling to find the relevance of your post to refugee's escaping from Syria ?Is it that countries should stop taking in refugees because of the actions of 2 Eritrean people ? interestingly on the subject of the baby boy , there were far younger babies that died in the lorry in Austria and yet the world didn't give two hoots , clearly a powerful image was what the world needed to get angry at what is going on... Maybe we need more powerful images of atrosities in this world to provoke and make people think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question...I'm struggling to find the relevance of your post to refugee's escaping from Syria ?Is it that countries should stop taking in refugees because of the actions of 2 Eritrean people ? interestingly on the subject of the baby boy , there were far younger babies that died in the lorry in Austria and yet the world didn't give two hoots , clearly a powerful image was what the world needed to get angry at what is going on... Maybe we need more powerful images of atrosities in this world to provoke and make people think ? Although terribly tragic, I did consider at the time of picture that it probably wasn't the most tragic event that had happened, but I suppose it was easier for the world's social warriors and fighters for humanity to click 'Share' on that one picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question...I'm struggling to find the relevance of your post to refugee's escaping from Syria ?Is it that countries should stop taking in refugees because of the actions of 2 Eritrean people ? interestingly on the subject of the baby boy , there were far younger babies that died in the lorry in Austria and yet the world didn't give two hoots , clearly a powerful image was what the world needed to get angry at what is going on... Maybe we need more powerful images of atrosities in this world to provoke and make people think ? Only if they can apply a simplistic solution, flaunt their superior morality on social media, not have to confront the deep complexity of an issue and rapidly move on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'd written something similar with my post but then deleted it as I was cautious that I'd then have to join Twitter to start a crusade against people that go on Twitter to start moral crusades 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 A question I have seen shared a lot here in Sweden is…when is it ok to upload photos of Carola and Emils dead bodies? Its the ones who got killed by an eritrean man when shopping at IKEA…think its a fair question...I've only just noticed this, but what?You know, I'm sure there are some pretty horrible people from Eritrea out there. There's plenty of horrible people from Britain as well, and unless I'm deeply mistaken, I reckon there's probably plenty of horrible people in Sweden too. I take it it's literally unheard of for white Swedish people to commit murder?You see, the morality here doesn't work. The vague possibility that because someone comes from the same country - or even a completely different country! - as someone who committed a crime, doesn't mean they will commit a crime, and it sure as shit doesn't mean you get to handwave anyway any responsibility to deal with an ongoing humanitarian crisis. Yes, maybe an immigrant, or a son or daughter of an immigrant, will commit a crime. But maybe your son or daughter will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I think I have to throw my hands up here and admit that I have absolutely no idea what is going on.There's a war in Syria. ISIS are involved. Initially the war began for some reason presumably, and then some other things happened, and now the Syrian people have determined that they've had enough and they are getting the hell out of there. They made their way through Turkey and some other countries over there and most recently have gotten to Hungary. Now at the same time there are a lot of Libyans dying trying to get to Sicily. And that has been happening for a while, and I'm guessing that Sicily is getting quite full. But I'm not sure that story is playing a hand in this one.So the first thing was this truck full of dead Syrians was discovered. And there was shock and oh my god the horror, but not really all that much. Then a toddler washes up on a beach somewhere and someone takes his photograph. And there was an outcry. And many people from rich countries have started to really really care about the Syrian people, to the point that they're willing to bring them into their homes apparently and feed them and clothe them etc. Ten thousand such people apparently in Iceland. And some in Germany. And there are pictures of people doing signs saying allow more refugees. Soon there will be an equivalent ice bucket challenge I assume.Anyway the Syrians will arrive in Germany and in two weeks time they'll either be in camps, or begging on the streets and people will have forgotten all about them and have moved onto the next tragedy that if they post about on the internet in the direction of the zeitgeist they'll be guaranteed internet points. And the awful things that were going on before the refugee crisis, like Boko Haram, or children being raped to cure HIV in African countries, or the forced/slave labour of the Qatari World Cup or whatever else - they'll all continue to happen. It'll be just one more thing that's happening that people really cared about for a bit, and then forgot about despite the fact that there was no resolution to the problem. So the politicians can say all the right things now because by the time that they actually have to do anything about it, everyone will have moved on to the next thing and have there'll be no political will to do anything. Anyway, as I say I haven't a clue what to think about all this. I think this is probably relevant though:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2o5Rxc6F0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I do feel as if I'm not totally supportive of the UK taking refugees I'm an selfish bastard who doesn't care about people dying It's a far more complex situation than is being portrayed for example not all of the people trying to get to Europe are from Syria so were is the line drawn who does get let in ?As it seems no end in sight for peace in Syria (and other countries ) then it's surely going to take more than offering these people shelter long term.I think the floodgates have been open and actually agree with the Hungaran prime minister that the 1000s now will turn to Millions and I'm not sure Europe can cope with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Turn them around and march them back to Kobani.It's not a nice knee jerk twitter solution, but it might protect our house prices and pensions.Got to think with a long term strategy not just react to dead toddlers washed up on beaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) Read somewhere that Assad has killed more people in Syria than ISIS ... Wonder if Milliband hadn't played political games to try and boost his own image if in fact Assad would have been deposed and the Syria conflict would have been over and we wouldn't be going through this current "crises" ? counter argument of course would be that the migrants dying on the way to Italy are coming from Libya , where we did help remove a dictator .... Edited September 5, 2015 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 What was the long term plan and strategy that Milliband blocked? Was it as complex and assertive and brilliant as the one we had for Libya and Iraq and Afghanistan?Having waded in to Iraq a couple of times without a strategy I'd be interested to know what the long term plan was for Syria that the coalition put forward and Labour rejected?ha ha, I'm sure it wasn't just let's throw money and gear at some armed groups that don't like Assad, I'm sure it was far more complex than that... we dabble, we spend a little bit, we dabble and spend and discuss a little bit more, time ticks on, then we see everything unravel and our politicians become just as surprised by unexpected events as the last time we did exactly the same thingdoubtless eventually there will even be an enquiry to make sure we 'learn the lessons', this won't happen until Chilcot has some spare time, obviously I don't claim it's easy. But we need to really consider what our long term plan is. Hopefully, the plan isn't really 'have a bit of a low cost dabble and hope for the best'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I do feel as if I'm not totally supportive of the UK taking refugees I'm an selfish bastard who doesn't care about people dying It's a far more complex situation than is being portrayed for example not all of the people trying to get to Europe are from Syria so were is the line drawn who does get let in ? As it seems no end in sight for peace in Syria (and other countries ) then it's surely going to take more than offering these people shelter long term. I think the floodgates have been open and actually agree with the Hungaran prime minister that the 1000s now will turn to Millions and I'm not sure Europe can cope with this.I think we've hit peak wellfare is Europe and we did it some time ago. We are fast approaching a point where we will find it very hard to maintain, much less increase and improve state wellfare. The current crisis is one example of this where people are willing to pay smugglers extortionate prices to get a place on a rickety "boat" just to get away from the hell they are in and find a better life in the European wellfare states (mostly Germany and Sweden). This certainly isn't somethingone can blam them for! Go knows what I would do to try and keep my child safe in a similar situation. The thing is though, as crass as it might sound, this crisis must be managed properly since so many are just knee-jerking it after seeing that horrible image. We are facing masaive changes in our society due to the amount of people in need of help. The wellfare systems will not be able to cope with current funding which means private means must be committed and in the long run, when the public stops caring so passionately, a workable plan must be in place so reshape the society into something workable. Concrete plans as to how this will be solved must start being formulated now while action is taken to save as many as possible. Remove the profit in extorting money from those in need by sending passenger vessels to extract people from the region? Granted, that will increase the number of reugees massively as those that simply cannot pay the smugglers find a way out that's free. Set quotas for all EU members to share the responaibilty? Possibly. What if some refuse? Toss them out? Start working on plans on what tax increases (if any) will be necessary to sustain this stream of refugees in the countries where they arrive. 85 students per teacher in lower and middle school? Longer lines to health- and dental care? Increased taxes for employers and employees? Thing is, in my book donating a small sum, sending clothes, skipping a vacation is not solidarity or even very "good". Maintaining interest long term, accepting that yes, things are probably about to change rather drastically and accepting that we might not be able to maintain what we have for quite a long period and working towards finding a viable solution to THAT problem, is. In my book at least. I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here is. But don't missunderstand me and think that I'm saying "don't let them in!" Or "let them all in!". I'm just very confused right now, and media REALLY isn't trustworthy when it comes to telling us what is going on and what will happen. They 're just vultures feeding off whatever carcass they can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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