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On 7/25/2017 at 22:25, Zatman said:

Sherwood was here for about 10 games as well. He had a more welcoming French manager for double that amount of games.

 People making excuses for him when he had no interest to be here and dont think that big of a loss since he offered us nothing

It's not "making excuses", it's offering reason.

Imagine you move abroad, let's say to France, for a relatively big club currently struggling (I dunno... Lille?) who you believe can get you further in your career.  You don't particularly want to leave Britain/Ireland, but recognise it will be a good career move so off you go.  You struggle to settle to life in your new country, the manager who bought you cuts you from the team, then blames you (and the other foreign signings) for the teams struggles.  He doesn't speak to you.  The team is divided, you probably feel quite "alone".  Irrespective of managerial changes after this, the dressing room is still pretty split (many people on here have called the club "rotten to the core" etc.).  The team gets relegated, your career boosting move hasn't worked out as you'd have hoped.  I mean, I'd want out of there, personally.   He still finished as our top assister - lack of effort?

Back in pre-season this time round, contrary to @LakotaDakota's post above, I actually thought he looked pretty bright and the best of our central midfielders.  He wanted to leave, but knew his contract was with Villa and was working hard.  Maybe this was to encourage a move away, who knows.

"No interest being at Villa" is just trotted out far too easily IMO.  It's not always down to the players - the club needed (and hopefully has) to look at subsequent treatment of them.  Apparently Graham Taylor "created" the players' liaison officer role when JPA struggled to settle into life in Birmingham.  For whatever reason, it seems like Jordan Veretout got the complete opposite treatment almost from day one.

 

I agree that he's not that big a loss - it's probably a good move for both parties to be fair - but I don't lay any particular blame or disgust at the players' feet for wanting out.

Edited by bobzy
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11 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Apparently Graham Taylor "created" the players' liaison officer role when JPA struggled to settle into life in Birmingham.  For whatever reason, it seems like Jordan Veretout got the complete opposite treatment almost from day one.

 

I think Lerner made her redundant.

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On 11/09/2017 at 00:17, VillaChris said:

I watched them v Inter Milan and he hardly touched the ball.

Neat and tidy footballer but just a bit lightweight for english football imo plus he struggled to learn the language and adapt.

Yes, it was a mystery to me why people wanted him to stay. He's shown nothing to suggest we could make it here. Another awful signing who contributed to our dreadful relegation season. 

The hope we had when we were spending the Christian Bentenke money on all those forrin players was so misplaced in hindsight. 

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Just in case it wasn't obvious what crap managers we had for our last season in the PL, it seems like Jordan Veretout is excelling in Serie A.

Quote
by James Horncastle | 03 January, 2018

"Complete midfielder" Veretout puts Villa struggles behind him at Fiorentina

There is a chapter in Monchi’s book about integrating new signings, particularly those from abroad and how the unforeseen can determine whether a player settles and performs or not. 

He talks about Hiroshi Kiyotake, a €6.5m signing from Hannover, who instantly became a first-team player at Sevilla only for a death in the family to prompt him to ask for a move back to Japan in January this year. 

Next there’s the story about Sebastian Battaglia, a player Monchi signed off on buying for Sevilla only for the Rojiblancos to get beaten to the punch by Villarreal. Monchi thought of him as one of the best midfielders in South America. But Battaglia’s wife didn’t much like Spain and within six months they were back in Argentina. 

Transfers like these often go down as flops, when in truth the players’ talent needn’t be in question. Life has a tendency to get in the way and disrupt footballers just as it can in every profession. 

In between reading these anecdotes I watched Fiorentina play Milan at the Artemio Franchi. Not for the first time this season Jordan Veretout impressed in midfield for the Viola. 

At the end of the first half, he hit the kind of pass very few midfielders have in their locker, dropping the ball in behind the Milan full-back for Gil Dias at the far post. If Gigio Donnarumma hadn’t been having one of those days when the Buffon comparisons are on the money, it would have been a certain goal. 

Afterwards, Fiorentina coach Stefano Pioli was asked which of the club’s 15 new signings had surprised him the most over the course of the first half of the season. “Veretout,” he said. “He’s a complete midfielder and still has room for improvement.”

Comparisons have been drawn with Radja Nainggolan, which at this juncture still seem a little overblown. “He’s a fantastic tackler,” Pioli continued, “but his movement can be better. Jordan has great ability and he’s an exception." How so exactly, Pioli elaborated thus: "It’s easy for foreign players to  initially find our league hard work but Jordan has done well from the start.” 

Pioli’s comments may come as a surprise to Aston Villa fans. Much was expected of Veretout when he moved from Nantes to Villa Park in an £8m deal three and a half years ago. He was an Under-20 World Cup winner with France, starting in midfield alongside Paul Pogba and Geoffrey Kondogbia. Performances in that tournament were backed up in Ligue 1 the following season as Veretout participated in 42% of Nantes’ goals. But in the end it didn’t work out for him in Birmingham. 

Did it make Veretout a bad player? Of course not. The same could be said for Florian Thauvin, another member of that Under-20 World Cup winning side who has since scored 23 goals and set up another 15 over the last 18 months in Ligue 1 after making the switch from Newcastle to Marseille. Maybe moves to the Premier League came too soon for the pair of them. Nor did it help that they joined two dysfunctional clubs who deserved to be relegated at the end of the season.

Extenuating circumstances in Veretout’s case are not lacking. As with Thauvin, there was a language barrier to overcome, which was made easier once Remi Gardi replaced Tim Sherwood. However, Garde didn’t see out the season either. It was a bad environment, hardly conducive to new recruits finding their feet and thriving. Just look at another of Villa’s signings that season: fellow Frenchman Jordan Amavi who has been called up to the France squad since following Thauvin to Marseille. 

The situation did little to help Veretout prepare for the Premier League. While his impression of football in England as “instinctive” is broadly shared by foreign players, it also maybe hints at the absence of any detailed tactical instruction at Villa, particularly in those early months. Veretout never felt tactics were “central” to the game in England. It contrasts a lot with what he has found in Italy. “I like Pioli,” he told La Gazzetta dello Sport, “he sets us new challenges every week. The mister helps me study the opponents also thanks to video analysis which I appreciate a great deal.” 

As with Kiyotake and Battaglia in Spain, other off-the-field matters played a role in making it difficult for Veretout to focus exclusively on his football and give the best of himself at Villa Park. Shortly before agreeing the move, Veretout had become a dad for the first time the move came at an awkward time for him and his wife Sabrina. Living out of a suitcase in a hotel with a newborn baby is hardly ideal and Veretout apparently wasn’t getting a lot of sleep. It affected his performances in training. Compartmentalising problems like these and “leaving them at home” is easier said than done. 

Watching Veretout now, you can’t say Villa’s recruitment team made a mistake in their talent identification. After all, he’s widely considered the best signing Fiorentina made last summer - more so than Giovanni Simeone, although that's in part down to the expectation differential. The pedigree was always there with him. 

Reflecting on the Kiyotake and Battaglia affairs, Monchi draws the following conclusion: they were the right players, it was just the wrong time for them. The same applies with Veretout who, though realistic given the competition for places in the France squad, is doing everything to put himself in Didier Deschamps’ mind ahead of the friendlies against Colombia and Russia in March.  

https://investobet.com/blog/complete-midfielder-veretout-puts-villa-struggles-behind-him-at-fiorentina

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If only we had even somewhat of a decent defense that season.

Ayew is doing decently for Swansea.

Veretout is doing very well.

Sanchez was limited as a footballer, but he could defend.

Gana had a Kante like year last year. 

Except we had Tim who preferred Richardson to Veretout.

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I read an article, where he said it was his own fault, that it didn't work at villa.

I read now where Scott Hogan identifies that he has to adapt to our style.....and takes ownership.

why is it always deemed the managers fault.....is it just a cop out?

 

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3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I read an article, where he said it was his own fault, that it didn't work at villa.

I read now where Scott Hogan identifies that he has to adapt to our style.....and takes ownership.

why is it always deemed the managers fault.....is it just a cop out?

 

Definitely not 100% Tim's fault, but it was very well known that Tim did not want Veretout. Veretout even admitted that Tim barely said more than a sentence to Veretout for months. Veretout also barely played under Tim, and when he did, it was at left mid. It would be like Bruce putting Hourihane at right mid. Obviously that wouldn't work. 

Our midfielders that season were Gana, Veretout, Westwood, and Sanchez. It wasn't a bad midfield actually, but we regularly were fielding Richardson and westwood as the CMs. 

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35 minutes ago, TRO said:

I read an article, where he said it was his own fault, that it didn't work at villa.

 

Veretout said that Sherwood made no effort to integrate him into the squad, and didn't even make the effort to speak to him.

if Sherwood had held a competent pre-season and tried to actually integrate the signings we might have not been the total embarrassment we ended up as.

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