mwj Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 You need to define what an advanced football statistic is really. The most well known would be Expected Goals (xG), but really how long is a piece of string, as you can see here as an example: http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2014/2/12/5404348/english-premier-league-shot-statistics Bear in mind this is just some guys blog. The really interesting stuff you'll need to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Jersey_Villa Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 13 hours ago, mwj said: "Moneyball" if you want to call it that (or just heavy use of data), is now responsible for winning the NBA, NFL, IPL as well as what was originally written about in the book, and there are many sports betting firms like Smart odds and Sporting index making huge profits predicting the outcome of matches using this data. The fact is this is the future whether you like it or not. Whether Almstadt and Reilly are good at it is another question... Evidently not..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 17, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted March 17, 2016 8 hours ago, BG_Villa_Fan said: I doubt it, at least the extent of it. Precisely which advanced football stats and metrics do you think they take into account? Honestly, if you don't think all premier league clubs use "stats and metrics" to "make decisions" then I don't know what to tell you. They almost certainly all use them every day for countless decisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Honestly, if you don't think all premier league clubs use "stats and metrics" to "make decisions" then I don't know what to tell you. They almost certainly all use them every day for countless decisions. The conversation was not about "stats and metrics", but about advanced analytics that the aforementioned sports have been using, so I've no idea what you want to say. I'm quite sure they all use "goals scored per game" Edited March 17, 2016 by BG_Villa_Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Well, obviously they're not using basketball-related metrics. But equally obviously they use advanced statistics to analyse player performances. I don't understand why this is even a conversation. Surely nobody actually believes that football clubs are leaving a whole load of statistical analysis on the shelf because they can't get themselves organised to use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 (edited) As there was/is no "football people" on the board or in the transfer committee, hence no "gut instinct" about players its hardly surprising they decided to sign players based off stats. Edited March 17, 2016 by pas5898 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 7 hours ago, BG_Villa_Fan said: The conversation was not about "stats and metrics", but about advanced analytics that the aforementioned sports have been using, so I've no idea what you want to say. I'm quite sure they all use "goals scored per game" You're very mistaken about the extent that top team rely on detailed data. Without exception all top flight teams (and all premiership teams) make massive use of stats and metrics. Companies like STATS and OPTA extensively analyise every game in every top league around the world and make the data available (at a considerable cost) to data teams who use the it for coaching, strategy and recruitment. Teams also use GPS and live health montoiring on players throughout every training session. My nephew is in a championship U15 side and recieves a link 24 hours after every game through which he can view highlights of just those passages of play he was involved in on the pitch with comments from the coaching staff. Data available to premiership players is many levels higher than this A few years ago Man City made two seasons worth of historic data available and this is still readily accessable through various forums - the amount of metrics for each game and player is mindblowing You're in the dark ages if you think that the use of data plateaus at "goals scored per game" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I'm all one for stats. Just looking at the championship, last year the fourth best player was Gestede. This year second best is Curtis Davies, 15th is Matty Lowton. Both Villa rejects. Now I don't think the stats are false, it just doesn't take into account the gulf in class between the two leagues. That's why you still need good scouts to judge if these player can make the step up and reproduce that form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 58 minutes ago, jon_c said: I'm all one for stats. Just looking at the championship, last year the fourth best player was Gestede. This year second best is Curtis Davies, 15th is Matty Lowton. Both Villa rejects. Now I don't think the stats are false, it just doesn't take into account the gulf in class between the two leagues. That's why you still need good scouts to judge if these player can make the step up and reproduce that form. Or a manager who isn't a complete moron. Sherwood: "Yep sounds good, lets replace Benteke with Rudy Gestede and throw in a cheeky bid for Adebayor as a nice-to-have" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 2 hours ago, jon_c said: I'm all one for stats. Just looking at the championship, last year the fourth best player was Gestede. This year second best is Curtis Davies, 15th is Matty Lowton. Both Villa rejects. Now I don't think the stats are false, it just doesn't take into account the gulf in class between the two leagues. That's why you still need good scouts to judge if these player can make the step up and reproduce that form. I think the stats that you are talking about are not the ones available to prem teams. It's not matter of ranking the players 1st, 2nd 3rd etc - the data is far far more sophisticated than that and looks at many elements - technical, tactical, physical and psychological. This is a massive undertaking - Man City for example currently have a team of 16 full time data analysts. Entry level qualifications ask for degrees in theoretical physics or advanced statistics. "Good scouts" are now a very very small part of recruiting first team players. Most of the scouts employed by Premiership teams concentrate on uncovering young talent where detailed data is not available 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 10 hours ago, mwj said: Or a manager who isn't a complete moron. Sherwood: "Yep sounds good, lets replace Benteke with Rudy Gestede and throw in a cheeky bid for Adebayor as a nice-to-have" yet we have no proof thats what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Zatman said: yet we have no proof thats what happened There's plenty of quotes out there from Fox, Sherwood and Garde... DYOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Apologies for opening up old wounds but found this interesting video on the role of Football Statistical Analytics and how they're implemented into the game, transfers, training, etc featuring our former Sporting Director. Sadly, he only relates to his time at Arsenal and unless I missed it, doesn't mention the mess he was involved in at Villa, but worth a look if you're into that sort of thing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Interesting bump. Did any other club actually employ this guy after he left us? I wouldn't say Gana, Amavi, Veretout, Adama was a bad showreel of players to sign in summer 2015, just very much a case of right players, wrong time and the Sherwood choices massively dragged the quality down plus the players we lost that summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Adam2003 Posted October 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Gana, Amavi, Veretout, Adama It’s so typical Villa that we could sign that group and it be a catastrophe and we get relegated. Almost funny really. Except for us of course. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: It’s so typical Villa that we could sign that group and it be a catastrophe and we get relegated. Almost funny really. Except for us of course. I don’t know if we did go for them but we should have signed Darren Fletcher and Jonny Evans that summer in addition to the above. Lescott and Richards were a disaster. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vancvillan Posted October 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Sulberto21 said: I don’t know if we did go for them but we should have signed Darren Fletcher and Jonny Evans that summer in addition to the above. Lescott and Richards were a disaster. People use the word "disaster" too flippantly. Here I think it's an understatement. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Listening to him speak about how everything was done at Arsenal with Arsene Wenger, it makes me think that Sherwood possibly didn't really fully understand what he was looking for with regards to metrics, you know, putting the pieces of the jigsaw together to create a cohesive unit. It actually sounds like he understands how the data analysis side and the actual "footballing side" (character, etc) fit together. I get the feeling TS as fun as he was just asked for "players who can make a difference" without thinking about how they can go together. Might have actually been a wasted opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 9 hours ago, VillaChris said: Interesting bump. Did any other club actually employ this guy after he left us? I wouldn't say Gana, Amavi, Veretout, Adama was a bad showreel of players to sign in summer 2015, just very much a case of right players, wrong time and the Sherwood choices massively dragged the quality down plus the players we lost that summer. Tbf gana, amavi, veretout and traore were 4 very, very good signings. I think this was discussed before, but the failure wasn't these signings, its that we weren't set up as a club to make these signings work as a whole. Ironically, I'm starting to feel similar now with players like sanson, buendia, Luiz, chambers, dendoncker etc etc, in that we aren't using players or integrating them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Is this guy still at Villa? Shouldn't it be in other football if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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