Idrissa Gana Gueye

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

On 18/2/2016 at 20:48, villa89 said:

The primary role of every midfielder is to pass the ball in order to keep possession and link play from back to front. A midfielder who can't pass is like an umbrella that can't keep out rain. You might find some use for it but it's not going to do the job it was bought for.

 

On 18/2/2016 at 21:27, DCJonah said:

What's the point in intercepting the ball so much if you then give it back to the opposition? 

He may have joint stats with Kante but he plays nothing like him. 

 

N'golo Kante is being spoken about as one of the best (or perhaps even THE best) defensive midfielder in the league right now. You guys are lambasting your own in Gana, saying he is nowhere near Kante's level and can't pass the ball.

These are the stats this season:

• Interceptions: Kante 4.2 per game; Gana 4.2 per game (=1st in Premier League)
• Tackles: Kante 4.2 per game; Gana 4.0 per game (3rd in Premier League)

And as far as ball distribution and passing goes:

• Kante 37 passes per game at 81.6% accuracy
• Gana 55 passes per game at 85.3% accuracy.

This is I find to be very interesting. In a team with fluid movement and what appears to be better players, Kante is actually a less successful passer than Gana despite only averaging 2/3rds as many passes as Gana does.

What this says to me is two things:

1. Perspective is so important. Kante is playing very well in a team that is absolutely flying, and as a consequence everyone thinks he's amazing. Gana is arguably playing just as well (if not better) according to virtually every key statistical metric that exists, but he is in a team sitting dead last and really struggling .. so people automatically think he must also be playing poorly.
2. The team matters. Gana is averaging just as many 'key passes' (assisted shots) as Kante is, but Kante has 3 assists to Gana's 0 ... two of Kante's assists have been to Mahrez (vs Swansea + ManCity), an elite player whom Villa simply have nobody that compares. When Kante gets the ball, straight away he has a simple pass to Drinkwater, a wide ball to Mahrez or a direct ball to Vardy, with fluid movement at pace to make it difficult for the defence. When Gana gets the ball, he looks up and gets a choice of a static Agbonlahor, a static Bacuna or Gestede or Kozak or Westwood or ... well feel free to take your pick. He is left needing to either do things at a crazy pace himself just to try and create something, take a wild shot from outside the box because there's nobody else likely to score anyway, or recycle possession.

The way I see it, Gana is far and away your most competent midfielder (and in my opinion easily your best player too). I truly believe that if he was playing for Leicester in Kante's position, he would be doing just as well if not even better, and he would be viewed in exactly the same light.

Anyway, apologies for the long-winded post. I am a massive fan of Gana, and I think suggesting that he is nowhere near the level of Kante ignores so many aspects, not least of which are that all the stats suggest Gana is actually performing to exactly the same level!

[ozvillafan]

Welcome Dragonz. Spot on what that one.

[DCJonah]

Interesting post and I wasn't aware of Kantes passing stats. 

But I can't agree. Stats are helpful tools but just soley using them is wrong. I haven't seen enough of Kante but I've seen enough of Gana to know he wouldn't be talked about as the best DM player in the league if he was in a Leicester shirt. 

If that is the case then let's see what team he ends up at in the summer. Because I guarantee all the big clubs have people analysing stats like the ones you've presented. 

[Keyblade]

I'm pretty sure we were saying Albrighton was nothing more than a Championship player at best before he left. We can never fully judge a player based on how how he plays for this poisoned club.

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Interesting post and I wasn't aware of Kantes passing stats. 

But I can't agree. Stats are helpful tools but just soley using them is wrong. I haven't seen enough of Kante but I've seen enough of Gana to know he wouldn't be talked about as the best DM player in the league if he was in a Leicester shirt. 

If that is the case then let's see what team he ends up at in the summer. Because I guarantee all the big clubs have people analysing stats like the ones you've presented. 

I agree that to look at stats only won't give you the picture you need.

Funnily enough, I reckon looking at the Arsenal vs Leicester game is instructive. In the first half, Kante was the best player on the field by a country mile, nipping in and making tackles left, right and centre. In the second half, Simpson got sent off and Leicester were down a man ... Kante became anonymous, I don't know if he touched the ball more than twice in the last 30 minutes.

Gana basically has to play with 10 every week given the number of passengers that seem to pull on a Villa shirt these days, and he still has heavy involvement. Obviously I'm joking, but I don't think the point is entirely off the mark haha!

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

I'm pretty sure we were saying Albrighton was nothing more than a Championship player at best before he left. We can never fully judge a player based on how how he plays for this poisoned club.

true but Albrighton and Gana you can see have glimpses of ability when here, some of the players here you can tell will be garbage elsewhere

[a m ole]

great post dragonz, you certainly made me consider my position on Gana.

What I would say in regards to Kante, is that due to the way Leicster play his passing stats are likey to be less impressive, they play at 100mph. I still think Kante is the better player.

However I also feel like your post highlights what I believe is there main problem in our squad, in that individually the players aren't awful but as a collective there isn't any 11 that all fit a particular system. Like you say, all our midfielders are looking for good penetrative movement. Gil, Ayew and Grealish are probably the most likely to make space for themselves behind the lines, but we can't play all of them due to certain deficiencies elsewhere on the pitch. It's like a team of jigsaw pieces from 4 different boxes.

I believe it's when Garde had a fully fit squad that we've got results, he suggested in his press conference before Stoke he doesn't have any choice who he plays at the moment. With a fit/not suspended squad I think he just about has enough to shoehorn these players into a system that can compete, and players like Gana look a lot more capable with the team around them a little more suited to their game.

[rodders0223]

7 hours ago, DRAGONZ_RULE said:

 

 

N'golo Kante is being spoken about as one of the best (or perhaps even THE best) defensive midfielder in the league right now. You guys are lambasting your own in Gana, saying he is nowhere near Kante's level and can't pass the ball.

These are the stats this season:

• Interceptions: Kante 4.2 per game; Gana 4.2 per game (=1st in Premier League)
• Tackles: Kante 4.2 per game; Gana 4.0 per game (3rd in Premier League)

And as far as ball distribution and passing goes:

• Kante 37 passes per game at 81.6% accuracy
• Gana 55 passes per game at 85.3% accuracy.

This is I find to be very interesting. In a team with fluid movement and what appears to be better players, Kante is actually a less successful passer than Gana despite only averaging 2/3rds as many passes as Gana does.

What this says to me is two things:

1. Perspective is so important. Kante is playing very well in a team that is absolutely flying, and as a consequence everyone thinks he's amazing. Gana is arguably playing just as well (if not better) according to virtually every key statistical metric that exists, but he is in a team sitting dead last and really struggling .. so people automatically think he must also be playing poorly.
2. The team matters. Gana is averaging just as many 'key passes' (assisted shots) as Kante is, but Kante has 3 assists to Gana's 0 ... two of Kante's assists have been to Mahrez (vs Swansea + ManCity), an elite player whom Villa simply have nobody that compares. When Kante gets the ball, straight away he has a simple pass to Drinkwater, a wide ball to Mahrez or a direct ball to Vardy, with fluid movement at pace to make it difficult for the defence. When Gana gets the ball, he looks up and gets a choice of a static Agbonlahor, a static Bacuna or Gestede or Kozak or Westwood or ... well feel free to take your pick. He is left needing to either do things at a crazy pace himself just to try and create something, take a wild shot from outside the box because there's nobody else likely to score anyway, or recycle possession.

The way I see it, Gana is far and away your most competent midfielder (and in my opinion easily your best player too). I truly believe that if he was playing for Leicester in Kante's position, he would be doing just as well if not even better, and he would be viewed in exactly the same light.

Anyway, apologies for the long-winded post. I am a massive fan of Gana, and I think suggesting that he is nowhere near the level of Kante ignores so many aspects, not least of which are that all the stats suggest Gana is actually performing to exactly the same level!

Wow.

Sign this poster up somebody.

[VillaChris]

Gana's been o.k with Veretout against lower half teams since xmas.

The problem is when we play anyone decent.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Only really had half an eye on the game yesterday and that's no way to notice Gana. How did he play?

[ozvillafan]

On 27/2/2016 at 21:56, VillaChris said:

Gana's been o.k with Veretout against lower half teams since xmas.

The problem is when we play anyone decent.

Used to hear that same line dribbled out against Merson (but not just since christmas).

Gana is one of our better players. He's surrounded by ineffective players (I'm looking at you, Bacuna and Westwood). That makes it hard when we are against "anyone decent".

 

 

[AshVilla]

I think he will go back to france in the summer

[DCJonah]

Thought he looked very average again. I'm sure all the top teams will be after him in the summer though. 

[Demitri_C]

Hope he goes, him and bloody crappy westwood

[It's Your Round]

There's a decent player in there somewhere, wouldn't be disappointed to see him stay on and form part of a new midfield. He reminds me a bit of NRC. 

[Michael118]

On 2/27/2016 at 19:30, Keyblade said:

I'm pretty sure we were saying Albrighton was nothing more than a Championship player at best before he left. We can never fully judge a player based on how how he plays for this poisoned club.

 

I wanted Albrighton to stay. He was our best and most dangerous player in the period before he left. I didn't understand why there wasn't a bigger deal made about him leaving.   

Gana I am less sure about but is not dissimilar. I think the chances are high he would be successful if he moved to another club with a good manager.

[PieFacE]

I hope he stays but he won't.  

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, Michael118 said:

 

I wanted Albrighton to stay. He was our best and most dangerous player in the period before he left. I didn't understand why there wasn't a bigger deal made about him leaving.   

His cross on Saturday was an absolute gem at that stage of the game

[Michael118]

Just now, Zatman said:

His cross on Saturday was an absolute gem at that stage of the game

 

I didn't watch the game but he's always had the ability to put in great crosses. Really please he is doing well just a shame it is for Leicester not Aston Villa.

[Zatman]

actually looking back it was Vardy who made the cross but Match of the Day made it sound like Albrighton