Hi-Fi Equipment

[villa4europe]

im a complete noob on this, dont even have a CD player anymore and my record player is a crosley but im moving house and want to set something up properly, im not overly worried about streaming services, i've got a beats pill for that, budget im open to ideas, dont want to go daft, at the moment for around £800 im looking at - 

Pro Ject juke box e, all in one record player (£370 or £500 with matching speakers)

Pro Ject CD box s (£300)

the CD player definitely looks expensive to me, the record player with the built in amp looks ok, the speakers at £130 seeing as they're matching again maybe ok but i dont want to pile it to that if it can be done better or especially if it can be done cheaper

[rjw63]

There's major bargains to be had second hand, the old stuff just lasts forever. I bought a Rega Planar 3 for £135 five years ago, the guy gave me the stand for nothing (which I gave to my son) and the Technics CD player for a tenner. All I've done since is replace the cartridge and I got that for £35

[bickster]

On 20/08/2018 at 11:04, villa4europe said:

im a complete noob on this, dont even have a CD player anymore and my record player is a crosley but im moving house and want to set something up properly, im not overly worried about streaming services, i've got a beats pill for that, budget im open to ideas, dont want to go daft, at the moment for around £800 im looking at - 

Pro Ject juke box e, all in one record player (£370 or £500 with matching speakers)

Pro Ject CD box s (£300)

the CD player definitely looks expensive to me, the record player with the built in amp looks ok, the speakers at £130 seeing as they're matching again maybe ok but i dont want to pile it to that if it can be done better or especially if it can be done cheaper

If your budget is £800 you can do much better than that

Project Debut Carbon Turntable £300 (got an earlier Debut myself)

Onkyo 9010 Amp  £200 (bought this amp last week, its great)

Q Acoustics 3010 Speakers £100 (I have Mission LX2's but only because the Q Acoustics were out of stock)

Marantz CD5005 £170 (no experience of this but it is on my list when I get around to a CD player)

Leaves you about £30 for decent speaker cable

 

[Xann]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a nice system.

Couple of things to add to the mix.

I'd split the budget like my listening habits. I listen more to CD, so my CD player got more budget. If it's going to be vinyl all the time? More money for the deck.

Would also consider a DAC so that you can connect other devices to your HiFi.

Some CD players allow access to their DACs. The step up from Bick's recommendation, the 6006, is much more expensive machine, but it has a USB.

With vinyl purchases now coming with downloadable digital content and loads of really quite amazing audio archives on the net, it's a good idea to have a system that's a little open ended.

[bickster]

On 22/08/2018 at 10:21, Xann said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a nice system.

Couple of things to add to the mix.

I'd split the budget like my listening habits. I listen more to CD, so my CD player got more budget. If it's going to be vinyl all the time? More money for the deck.

Would also consider a DAC so that you can connect other devices to your HiFi.

Some CD players allow access to their DACs. The step up from Bick's recommendation, the 6006, is much more expensive machine, but it has a USB.

With vinyl purchases now coming with downloadable digital content and loads of really quite amazing audio archives on the net, it's a good idea to have a system that's a little open ended.

Line 5 on the Onkyo Amp is a male 3.5 mm jack input. A few quid for a male to male lead and Spotify now plays through the HiFi as will anything else on my phone.

[Xann]

36 minutes ago, bickster said:

Line 5 on the Onkyo Amp is a male 3.5 mm jack input. A few quid for a male to male lead and Spotify now plays through the HiFi as will anything else on my phone.

Actually, that's fine if you're plugging in from some DACs, like the Dragonfly USB (Which make computers sound proper HiFi, way better than the audio jack, and are pretty smart).

Connecting a phone to your amp from its jack output employs the phone's DAC. Phone tech is compromised by size and heat considerations. Connecting a phone to to a player/DAC via USB and the phone becomes storage leaving the audio processing to the device optimised for sonics. 

[bickster]

Ok I'm looking at a CD player now, not immediately but next couple of weeks or something like that, I'm reckoning a budget of £250ish and following on from what @Xann said upthread, I'm thinking of maybe the Yamaha CD-N301

Is this a good choice or can I do better?

What is the state of these internet radio stations (vTuner), do they make the package more attractive or is it something that'll never get used

How well does it connect to Spotify?

[Xann]

18 hours ago, bickster said:

Ok I'm looking at a CD player now, not immediately but next couple of weeks or something like that, I'm reckoning a budget of £250ish and following on from what @Xann said upthread, I'm thinking of maybe the Yamaha CD-N301

Is this a good choice or can I do better?

What is the state of these internet radio stations (vTuner), do they make the package more attractive or is it something that'll never get used

How well does it connect to Spotify?

That looks pretty good Bicks. 

If you've got buckets of stuff on drives you can network? It certainly makes sense.

I'm always a little suspicious when you're dependent on a manufacturer to update third party software, (my 'future proof' telly's defunct Youtube reader for example) but Yamaha are generally a repectful bunch. Even if they stopped updating the onboard Spotify software you could still stream to the player from another Spotify capable device.

No USB port, but that's not a biggie, again you'd plug the stick into another device and stream from that.

Reckon it would probably work nicely with media software like Kodi or the the more audio focused Roon or J-River?

How good it would be wirelessly from your phone? No idea?  I have a boombox for that. I wire devices to the nice player/DAC via USB for phones and drives, HDMI from the computers and an optical out from the telly. Though it gets updates wirelessly.

vTuner is just a browser app for finding and streaming internet radio. You search for stations by name, genre or location. It's built into my telly and still works (unlike Youtube). I don't listen to radio much, but have used it very occasionally.

Get a demo I'd say. Have a think about what you want from it? Write it down and hand it to the Richer Sounds staff. Let them explain how you'd go about connecting it up. Oh and look at the app that runs it, that could make or break the deal?

[Xann]

Tried the Bose sunglasses yesterday.

Considering they fire into your lugs off axis, they sound pretty clear.

It's an interesting sensation having a sort of headphone sound without the contact over or in the ear, quite liked it.

3 hour battery life, light bass and no isolation from surrounding noise means I won't be buying a pair.

Will watch where the tech goes from here though.

[rjw63]

There's plenty of cheap second hand goodies to be had if you're thinking of starting with vinyl.

My step daughter just split with her bloke and he took the stereo, so I got her a Marantz semi -auto deck, Toshiba amp and tuner, with small Mission speakers on Omnimount stands for £55. Great starter set and sounds decent too.

[chrisp65]

Yep, still cheap because people presume you have to have new and from that presumption they go and buy a Crossley in HMV or spend £1500 in Richer Sounds.

Even buying from a specialist shop you can still get some great deals after their mark up. There's a rega planar 1 deck in a shop down in Hampshire at the moment, absolutely mint with the box and the manual and it's £145. I don't think you could buy the arm for that money as a separate. Cheaper on gumtree I'm sure, but from a shop it's been checked over and you've got a guarantee.

Same guy has a Fons turntable for a bit less, Tannoy Merc II speakers, and a tiny pair of Sony SS speakers for £75.

I've fancied the mini Sonys for ages (they'll tuck under some cabinets in the kitchen) and I just know if I can actually turn up in person at the shop, he instantly drops his prices by ten or twenty and then puts a couple of freebie bits n bobs on the top. I bought a £60 amp last time I was in there, he knocked it down to 50 for cash and gave me a tee shirt and some speaker cable! 

[Xela]

On 03/03/2017 at 15:21, chrisp65 said:

apparently this was used to record some album called Dark Side of the Moon and it's coming up for auction if anyone is interested...

auction is at Bonhams I shall employ my usual tactic of a low £10.01 bid and hope nobody else has seen it..

Sold for 1.8m USD by the way!

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, Xela said:

Sold for 1.8m USD by the way!

I told the missus it was fifty quid so if you could delete that post I'd appreciate it.

She's totally pissy about not being able to use the garage as well.

[fightoffyour]

I want to buy a basic turntable to start playing the vinyl I've been collecting over recent years.

This Audio Technica one is about the right price for me and a recommended brand:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-AT-LP60-Automatic-Belt-Drive-Turntable-Silver/dp/B00EUSMFPQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2VA1UEPNVPU48&keywords=audio%2Btechnica%2Bturntable&qid=1558645600&s=gateway&sprefix=audio%2Btec%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-3&th=1#

Now, you're probably all going to tell me this is naff compared to a proper set up and it may well be, but considering the budget - is it ok? And more importantly, will it be alright to hook up to an existing speaker without buying an amp too? It seems to have a built-in/pre-amp so it should work, but is the difference in sound quality going to be significant?

[Xann]

11 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

I want to buy a basic turntable to start playing the vinyl I've been collecting over recent years.

This Audio Technica one is about the right price for me and a recommended brand:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio-Technica-AT-LP60-Automatic-Belt-Drive-Turntable-Silver/dp/B00EUSMFPQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2VA1UEPNVPU48&keywords=audio%2Btechnica%2Bturntable&qid=1558645600&s=gateway&sprefix=audio%2Btec%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-3&th=1#

Now, you're probably all going to tell me this is naff compared to a proper set up and it may well be, but considering the budget - is it ok? And more importantly, will it be alright to hook up to an existing speaker without buying an amp too? It seems to have a built-in/pre-amp so it should work, but is the difference in sound quality going to be significant?

Never used one, but it's not likely to be that awful. Almost certainly not as bad as Ion or Crosley.

It'll have a pre-amp, but not a power amp. You'll need active speakers or an amp.

Maybe contrast and compare to the Pro-Ject 0.5 before deciding?

[fightoffyour]

28 minutes ago, Xann said:

Never used one, but it's not likely to be that awful. Almost certainly not as bad as Ion or Crosley.

It'll have a pre-amp, but not a power amp. You'll need active speakers or an amp.

Maybe contrast and compare to the Pro-Ject 0.5 before deciding?

Thanks, I can't just plug it into a normal home bluetooth (in the aux, obviously) speaker then, without an amp - what should I be looking for in an amp?

Pro-Ject 0.5 seems highly regarded but discontinued? Should I buy used or a similar model?

[Xann]

8 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Thanks, I can't just plug it into a normal home bluetooth (in the aux, obviously) speaker then.

That should work, bluetooth speakers are usually active.

One potential snag. Without knowing the output of the record deck and the input of the active speaker you don't know how they'll pair up?

You might find that turning the speaker all the way up is still too quiet, or conversely, turning up the speaker a little results in clipping and distortion?

You'll probably be ok.

[fightoffyour]

1 minute ago, Xann said:

That should work, bluetooth speakers are usually active.

One potential snag. Without knowing the output of the record deck and the input of the active speaker you don't know how they'll pair up?

You might find that turning the speaker all the way up is still too quiet, or conversely, turning up the speaker a little results in clipping and distortion?

You'll probably be ok.

Ah ok, the amp is for classic non-powered set of speakers. Getting it now. So I should just go for a turntable and if I have problems with the sound level then I'll add an amp,  then I could change the speakers too. Cheers, I know absolutely nothing about this.

[Xann]

As for what's best Pro-Ject or Audio Technica - You got a Richer Sounds nearby? Ask there, they stock both brands.

I didn't know the 0.5 had been discontinued tbh

[Xann]

A pair of these will set you back over $600,000.

Not really relevant to the man on the street then. What is relevant is how they went about testing them.

There's lots of digital audio formats: WAV, MP3, OGG, AIFF, FLAC, DSD, DXD etc etc 

WAV is variable density, DSD and DXD are at the posher end of HiFi. All these were auditioned

The format the testers thought was easiest on the ear was MQA.

Master Quality Authenticated is lossy codec, but a posh lossy codec that folds along the timeline, not the bandwidth and is taken from the master

When the packets reach your player it's unfolded, once will work, twice for full effect. It was developed by Meridian famous for making high end digital players.

Here we move into psychoacoustics - How we perceive sound.

Red Book (bog standard) CD actually runs rings around vinyl for accuracy of reproduction, but many prefer the warmth of records, though technically it's the sound being smeared.

MQA is digital being pleasantly smeared.

MQA encoded CDs are now available, but crucially it can be streamed down a copper line.

Tidal have an expanding catalogue of core titles and Xiami have just signed up in China.

 

More and more devices are MQA capable. This might be something to keep in mind when you're buying a new system?