OutByEaster? Posted June 2, 2015 Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2015 Where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 The People's Assembly Against Austerity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The People's Assembly: "end austerity now!" The Government: "no". The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 it will serve no purpose. Is it just this demonstration that will serve no purpose, or all of them? If it's the latter, history would suggest otherwise. Protests, and protest movements, effect social change. Given the current nature of the Labour party, protest movements seem about the only feasible option ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) it will serve no purpose.Is it just this demonstration that will serve no purpose, or all of them? If it's the latter, history would suggest otherwise. Protests, and protest movements, effect social change. Given the current nature of the Labour party, protest movements seem about the only feasible option ... Yes some protest movements do work (although I'm trying to think of one in UK since universal sufferage was achieved), but this one won't. The Tories won an election on the basis of continuing austerity. While that isn't universally popular (understatement) they do have a mandate for it under our current democratic system. I predict that the anarchic / middle class rent a mob types will take over the march, vandalise loads of stuff and leave their "cause" looking like an excuse to riot, and its participants like idiots. Edited June 3, 2015 by Awol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Could someone offer a definition of the austerity the demo is against, and what would have to happen before austerity could be said to have ended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Could someone offer a definition of the austerity the demo is against, and what would have to happen before austerity could be said to have ended? One very narrow definition would be Public Sector cuts, of which the Tories have 'promised' 10bn or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 it will serve no purpose. Is it just this demonstration that will serve no purpose, or all of them? If it's the latter, history would suggest otherwise. Protests, and protest movements, effect social change. Given the current nature of the Labour party, protest movements seem about the only feasible option ... Yes some protest movements do work (although I'm trying to think of one in UK since universal sufferage was achieved), but this one won't. The Tories won an election on the basis of continuing austerity. While that isn't universally popular (understatement) they do have a mandate for it under our current democratic system. I predict that the anarchic / middle class rent a mob types will take over the march, vandalise loads of stuff and leave their "cause" looking like an excuse to riot, and its participants like idiots. The Poll Tax riots were quite interesting. It's very difficult to attribute change directly to a march/movement/protest/riot, but they certainly had an effect. I guess, in the UK, most protest movements that directly effected change were 100 or so years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Did Boris ever get his water cannons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 He did, three of them - But Theresa May has refused him a license... As it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 He did, three of them - But Theresa May has refused him a license... As it stands. Perhaps he can use them as a jet-wash to clean up the war memorial? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 He's said he's prepared to be hosed if he gets to use them afterwards. I'd attach it to a colonic irrigation kit for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 it will serve no purpose. Is it just this demonstration that will serve no purpose, or all of them? If it's the latter, history would suggest otherwise. Protests, and protest movements, effect social change. Given the current nature of the Labour party, protest movements seem about the only feasible option ... Yes some protest movements do work (although I'm trying to think of one in UK since universal sufferage was achieved), but this one won't. The Tories won an election on the basis of continuing austerity. While that isn't universally popular (understatement) they do have a mandate for it under our current democratic system. I predict that the anarchic / middle class rent a mob types will take over the march, vandalise loads of stuff and leave their "cause" looking like an excuse to riot, and its participants like idiots. The Poll Tax riots were quite interesting. It's very difficult to attribute change directly to a march/movement/protest/riot, but they certainly had an effect. I guess, in the UK, most protest movements that directly effected change were 100 or so years ago. interestingly resulting in a "fair" tax based on ability to pay being replaced with an unfair tax (council tax ) ... top work lefties 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 3, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2015 So don't bother to protest then? Is that what I'm hearing from some? Screw democracy, let's all embrace totalitarianism. I'll be there. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 it will serve no purpose. Is it just this demonstration that will serve no purpose, or all of them? If it's the latter, history would suggest otherwise. Protests, and protest movements, effect social change. Given the current nature of the Labour party, protest movements seem about the only feasible option ... Yes some protest movements do work (although I'm trying to think of one in UK since universal sufferage was achieved), but this one won't. The Tories won an election on the basis of continuing austerity. While that isn't universally popular (understatement) they do have a mandate for it under our current democratic system. I predict that the anarchic / middle class rent a mob types will take over the march, vandalise loads of stuff and leave their "cause" looking like an excuse to riot, and its participants like idiots. The Poll Tax riots were quite interesting. It's very difficult to attribute change directly to a march/movement/protest/riot, but they certainly had an effect. I guess, in the UK, most protest movements that directly effected change were 100 or so years ago. interestingly resulting in a "fair" tax based on ability to pay being replaced with an unfair tax (council tax ) ... top work lefties Come again? The Poll Tax was a regressive tax. It was a flat tax per person. There were some consessions for the 'poor' (not sure on theshold or definition), but it was very much an unfair, regressive, flat tax. "The Green Paper of 1986, Paying for Local Government, produced by the Department of the Environment from consultations between Lord Rothschild, William Waldegrave and Kenneth Baker, proposed the poll tax. This was a fixed tax per adult resident, hence the term 'poll tax'" (source = Wiki) It was replaced by the Council Tax, which is slightly better, as it's based on property value (the idea being that someone in a more expensive property is, generally, going to be slightly bettre off than someine living in a hovel, and this they should contribute more). "Council Tax strongly resembled the rates system that the poll tax had replaced. The main differences were at the tax's inception that properties were placed in bands thereby capping the maximum amount, and it was levied on capital value rather than notional rental value of a property" (source = Wiki) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The poll tax was a total disaster. It didn't take into account people's wealth or the size of property people lived in. You could have a family of 6 living in a run down council house paying more than a small family living in a mansion. A lot of people refused to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 He did, three of them - But Theresa May has refused him a license... As it stands.Boris was confused - he hadn't, until now, needed a licence to spray his cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) It was a flat tax per person.More appropriately in talking about tax (so as not to get confused with flat tax rates), it was a fixed tax and that seemingly passes for fair in some quarters (as does a flat tax rate).As for council tax - the coalition government (and now the Tories) have been doing their best to make that more regressive by the abolition of statutory rebate schemes (council tax benefit) and the introduction of local council tax rebate schemes ('council tax support') which had to be introduced alongside a reduction in monies from central government and a cap on council tax increases.Edit: It's one example of where the localism agenda* enables central government to pass the blame on their own decision making (the reduction in money from central government and cap on council tax) to other people (councils having to make the choice about cutting local services or rebates, for example).*It has been sold to us as a great thing to empower local communities in decision making but it's ignored by central government whenever expedient (see planning and now the new education bill). Edited June 3, 2015 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The poll tax was a total disaster. It didn't take into account people's wealth or the size of property people lived in. You could have a family of 6 living in a run down council house paying more than a small family living in a mansion. A lot of people refused to pay. Tax A: tax based on size of property occupied with total disregard of income of resident = fair Tax B: tax based on size of property occupied with total disregard of income of resident = unfair Tax A = Council Tax Tax B = Bedroom Tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 it will serve no purpose. Is it just this demonstration that will serve no purpose, or all of them? If it's the latter, history would suggest otherwise. Protests, and protest movements, effect social change. Given the current nature of the Labour party, protest movements seem about the only feasible option ... Yes some protest movements do work (although I'm trying to think of one in UK since universal sufferage was achieved), but this one won't. The Tories won an election on the basis of continuing austerity. While that isn't universally popular (understatement) they do have a mandate for it under our current democratic system. I predict that the anarchic / middle class rent a mob types will take over the march, vandalise loads of stuff and leave their "cause" looking like an excuse to riot, and its participants like idiots. The Poll Tax riots were quite interesting. It's very difficult to attribute change directly to a march/movement/protest/riot, but they certainly had an effect. I guess, in the UK, most protest movements that directly effected change were 100 or so years ago. interestingly resulting in a "fair" tax based on ability to pay being replaced with an unfair tax (council tax ) ... top work lefties Come again? The Poll Tax was a regressive tax. It was a flat tax per person. There were some consessions for the 'poor' (not sure on theshold or definition), but it was very much an unfair, regressive, flat tax. "The Green Paper of 1986, Paying for Local Government, produced by the Department of the Environment from consultations between Lord Rothschild, William Waldegrave and Kenneth Baker, proposed the poll tax. This was a fixed tax per adult resident, hence the term 'poll tax'" (source = Wiki) It was replaced by the Council Tax, which is slightly better, as it's based on property value (the idea being that someone in a more expensive property is, generally, going to be slightly bettre off than someine living in a hovel, and this they should contribute more). "Council Tax strongly resembled the rates system that the poll tax had replaced. The main differences were at the tax's inception that properties were placed in bands thereby capping the maximum amount, and it was levied on capital value rather than notional rental value of a property" (source = Wiki) Is wiki really the best source you can come up with on this for your argument ?? i think the bit you where you wrote "There were some consessions for the 'poor' (not sure on theshold or definition)," probably sums it up best .... maybe the rioters should have checked also before they trashed a few of London McDonald's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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