Isa Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 They haven't been relaxed yet, and similarly I'm not fully sure a legal challenge would necessarily stand up given Germany as a precedent for it being VERY strict for membership in the league regarding finances and no lawsuits arising I'm not familiar with Germany's rules but from what I've read, FFP potentially breaches aspects of EU law and can be challenged on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm not familiar with Germany's rules No debt is allowed. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I was under the impression Schalke have debts, is that not correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm not familiar with Germany's rules No debt is allowed. At all. Ok but they do they allow any potential debt to be avoided from private investment rather than purely via natural income? Going by Wolfburg's financial backing from Volkswagen and Leipzig with Red Bull, it appears they do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I was under the impression Schalke have debts, is that not correct? Not according to Forbes: Schalke 04 Team Value1 $572 M Team Value calculated May 2015 Owner/Controlling Shareholder:club members Country: Germany League: German Bundesliga Domestic League Championships: 7 Revenue: $290 M (€214 M) Operating Income2 : $57 M (€42 M) Debt/Value3 : 0% Match Day: $99 M Broadcasting: $165 M Commercial: $223 M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm not familiar with Germany's rules No debt is allowed. At all. Ok but they do they allow any potential debt to be avoided from private investment rather than purely via natural income? Going by Wolfburg's financial backing from Volkswagen and Leipzig with Red Bull, it appears they do? I'm not sure. One party/company cannot own more than 49% of a club, though, with exceptions only made for Wolfsburg and Leverkusen because they were originally set up as teams for companies. There's a rule that if you run into temporary debt (eg from buying a player) you cannot buy another player until you sell a player/players to service the debt, which suggests that, no, an owner or investor can't plug the gap, but I can't find anything that makes it 100% clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Red Bull technically have full control over Leipzig also. They've restricted club membership only to about 10 people, consisting of their board members. I think the difference is that there is leeway forprivate investment over there or the rules can be bended at least. Whereas the Premier League ones are rigid and basically prevent an owner being able to invest in his own company which is the issue. But I'm no expect in this matter so I might be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm not fully sure letting an owner spend what they want is the right way to go either. It'd have to come with some kind of caveat like if you're investing your own money it cannot be as a loan, it must be without any fees and there can be no regulations to it. It'd need to be a 100% non refundable injection of cash with no promise or guarantee of repayment. If you succeed you can get your money back through selling the club only - no taking money out while you're there beyond a wage deemed reasonable by the league (eg not giving yourself a $50m a year pay raise after "injecting" $150m) Doing that, and insisting on a 0 debt system like Germany would keep the haves and have nots, but at least the have nots would be maybe mights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted May 28, 2015 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2015 Oh please FFP is almost finished before it began UEFA FFP =/= domestic FFP While that's technically true, the reason UEFA are relaxing their FFP is because of the lawsuits mounting up and the tenuous legal ground they're on. So any precedent set in one is likely to be relevant in the other. IOW if one falls then so will the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I disagree with all the legal nonsense. You wanna play in uefa competition you need to play by their rules I'm just waiting for the day when a 14 year olds parenta sues a league because they won't let him play u13 football with his mates. Ageism and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 So Germany is used as a bench mark for FFP no wonder all the top clubs like it. Bayern virtually win the league every year that's the total opposite of a competitive playing field! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Oh please FFP is almost finished before it began UEFA FFP =/= domestic FFP While that's technically true, the reason UEFA are relaxing their FFP is because of the lawsuits mounting up and the tenuous legal ground they're on. So any precedent set in one is likely to be relevant in the other. IOW if one falls then so will the other. UEFA have likes of City and PSG challenging the legailty of their version of FFP..In Prem league it was voted for by most of the clubs and the bigger ones are unlikely to challenge is whilst it favours them.You would be relying on say us for example being purchased by someone very rich who decides to throw their full weight behind a legal challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 We need an owner willing to put the money into the transfer kitty to push us Then we need it to be a few years ago before FFP. An owner cannot put any more money in than Randy has already been doing. The ONLY way we can spend more is to bring more in, and cut costs elsewhere. How do people not grasp this yet. It's got nothing to do with Lerner. It hasn't got much to do with him currently choosing to put money in but its got massively to do with him in terms of how much we can spend. As fox saidHe said whilst most clubs were improving their income by huge amountstheir, our year on year income was increased by only 5%. Its not just on the pitch but off it we've been run poorly but he had our best interest at heart so we forgive him. The guys an awful owner and has set the club back years. I hope we can start to catch up before we become a regular bottom half club fighting for survival each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted May 29, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2015 I disagree with all the legal nonsense. You wanna play in uefa competition you need to play by their rules I'm just waiting for the day when a 14 year olds parenta sues a league because they won't let him play u13 football with his mates. Ageism and all that Make his mates all play up in the u14's. Solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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